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9-0 decision against the EPA!
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4012

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is hardly a wetland.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4012

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

or this better photo.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5745

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Bard, how about a vertical aerial view of the property where we might be able to better discern the lay of the land. Getting closer to the truth seems to be the right course here.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5080

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bard--you are so silly you can't see the fill.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1922

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm no expert...I would call in a consultant to double check if I were designing a building on that site. It does look suspect to me. Tall grasses to the side would be of concern. It is usually not a big deal to have someone from the army corp come out and look at a site. Just did it a couple weeks for a friend of mine considering the purchase of a property.

Sometimes you can get the army corp to look at a site and let you know it is not a wetlands and save the consulting fee. Up front, it is not as onerous as it would appear. The problem is when one proceeds without a permit. It is harder to prove there was not a wetland once you cover it up.

FWIW, these issues are hardly new. Blaming this on Obama is a stretch.
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2615

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboardhead wrote:
Blaming this on Obama is a stretch.

Here's how it works:

No wind... Obama's fault.
Too much wind... Obama's fault.
Just the right wind... Bush set the stage for this weather pattern back when he was planning Bin Laden's demise and GM's recovery.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4012

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Sacketts' property lies just north of Priest Lake, but is separated from the lake by several lots containing permanent structures. In preparation for building a vacation house there, the Sacketts filled about half an acre of their lot with dirt and rock.

Several months later, they received from the EPA a compliance order directing them immediately to restore a wetland on the property under an EPA work plan because Priest Lake is a "navigable water" of the United States within the meaning of the Act.

The EPA decided that by causing fill material to enter waters of the United States, the Sacketts have engaged, and are continuing to engage, in the "discharge of pollutants" from a point source, which is prohibited by the Clean Water Act without a permit.

MORE GOVT BULLSHIT? From the 2nd photo it appears that the govt roadway is below the elevation of the lot. Curious.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1922

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quite possible the road goes thru a wetlands. I have designed a number of bridges and walkways in wetlands. We just go through the permit process to do it. Frankly, I am often suprised at what is sometimes permitted.

No way can any of us determine if this was a wetlands by the information shown.

The real issue, IMO, is that the appeal process can be overwhelming. I agree with the Supreme Court decision. It does not mean these folks did not knowingly, or unknowingly, violate a regulation. And, what we know of this example is not enough to say this regulation is bogus.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3311

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The wetlands designation was almost certainly on their title report when they purchased. It often results in the property being the last to sell in a built out area because it costs more to build.
The problem was their inability to have reasonable recourse. The Court came through for the small guy hooray.
Looking through the early posts I note that other posters mostly objected to blaming this Bush era BS on "Obamas EPA."
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2615

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

keycocker wrote:

Looking through the early posts I note that other posters mostly objected to blaming this Bush era BS on "Obamas EPA."

Those are the ones who could NOT care less about the property owners, EPA, neighborhood, property, environment, wetlands, wildlife or anything else logical.

No, those are the ones who leap to any opportunity to slam the President, no matter how contrived, illogical, or downright dishonest the claims.
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