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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4153

PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I meant lenders.

Obama's tactic of borrowing and spending has taken hold world-wide. Total world gdp is 60 trillion and total world debt is 600 trillion. A 10-1 ratio. In addition inflation has taken hold to the tune of 7-8% for common goods. The CPI-U (consumer price index) is the broadest measure of consumer price inflation for goods and services published by the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) is a more informative measure of what obama has done to us.

http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/inflation-charts

Obama is simply inflating to spread the misery to the middle class instead of the Buffets of the world. No one on this site has agreed with me that Buffet should not be allowed to put his money in trust, and therefore escape paying any meaningful taxes. This is okay with the oligarch obama. He is okay with the silent tax of inflation, which hurts the middle class worse than the ultra wealthy.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5259

PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bard--sometimes you seem almost rational, but then you seem consumed with hatred for Obama. I agree with you that inflation is a silent tax, generally passed on to the next generation. But I disagree with Austrian economists school that says all will be fixed if we return to the gold standard. They had their run at the "free" market--it led to reckless lending and a Bush-sponsored bank bailout. Even if it were the technically correct answer, which I doubt, all but one of the world's currencies are based on fiat, not gold, and the US Currency remains the strongest.

But you get absolutely crazy when you blame the problems of overleverage on Obama. If you did a little research (which might make you more credible), you would find out that the United States, and the rest of the world, went on a binge of borrowing between repeal of the Glass Steagall Act in 1999 and the time that Obama took office. Private leverage, particularly in real estate, was much higher than public debt. In 2007, after a decade of gambling instead of banking, the total US debt was $48 trillion. Household debt was $13.8 trillion. Mortgage debt stood at $10.5 trillion--double what it was in 1997. Business debt was $10.6 trillion, also twice what it was in 2007. But the real key is the debt of the domestic financial sector--$16.2 trillion, triple what it was in 1997. So the "banks" were borrowing at a furious rate to sell loans, counting (banking?) on a continued high rate of consumer spending and appreciation of housing prices. This was the circumstance of debt when Obama came into office. The housing market had collapsed due to speculation and fraud. Hubris had convinced the financial sector that the Ponzi scheme could go on forever.

The role of the Federal government is sustaining this problem is not trivial, but it is not Obama's creation. The banks hedged on their speculation in three ways. First, they sold the loans as fast as they could, pocketing the loan appreciation fees (and giving big chunks of them as bonuses to those who peddled the loans.) Through fraudulent accounting practices they sold those bad loans as securities--throughout the world, including many of our pension funds. Second, some of the firms invested in hedge funds, in effect betting against their bad loans. Third, the Federal government, through Fannie and Freddie, remained the largest purchaser of mortages, a practice that has been going on for many many years. Again, all of this happened before Obama took office.

I can't speculate how many of the financial "wizards" who devised this system expected the Federal government to bail them out of their terrible decisions, but pretty much all of them begged for such help. Obama's contributions to this part of the economic collapse was to make sure that the Bush bail-out plan was re-written from a 2 page bill outline to a structure that would require some underlying economic value in a bank getting a bail-out, and a system to repay the loans. His second contribution was a rather mild re-regulation of the financial sector to avoid recurrence of the problem--fought by the pigs that had brought the house of cards down--and every single Republican.

Save your paranoia and hate for those who actually started the financial firestorm.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3387

PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obama invented deficit spending and now everyone else on earth is copying it from him?
Obama is running up inflation deliberately to help out the millionaires who hate him because they are mostly GOP and he is trying to tax them alone.
Obama wants poor black people to suffer?
Are sure that was a clear statement of your beliefs based on the facts?
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4153

PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obama would have been my hero if he'd broken the cycle of debt, borrowing, and big govt. He had a chance to end racial divisiveness and class warfare. He has chosen a very similar path as Bush, except he won't even approve a pipeline or slow down the avalanche of business killing regs. (not to mention all the scandals) Solyndra, Unions funneling $ back to his campaign, fast and furious cover up etcetera.

I'm sorry guys, but I believe in my heart that if obama is re-elected, this will be the end of the America in which we grew up in. Unfortunately the repubs aren't offering a radical candidate who will really change directions.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3387

PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You disliked Clinton, hated bush, really hate Obama who will be the end of America.
Things don't look so good from Malibu this last twenty years and we now nearing the end, eh?
Are you really sure of this?
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3572
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bard, at this point you look more like Michael Douglas in Falling Down, rather than a cool dude Malibu waterman.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5259

PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"would have been my hero" but you hate him because he had to deal with the Republican's borrowing mess?

I've asked you on multiple occasions which regulations can be done away with. You have no idea, or how many lives it would cost--you just repeat stuff without thinking about it--as long as it is negative about Obama. What a piece of work.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4153

PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy to forget that the dems held the purse strings since 2006.

We've had some good sailing down here lately. C street has been epic for the 1st time in 10 years. jalama has been off the richter scale good. 80 degrees on the beach with 20 knots out of the west today in Da Bu!

Yes, it has been beautiful down here, despite the slow economic collapse of the world economy. Greece, the 1st major country to default in 60 years. Laughing You buying gold yet Boggs?

Mac, I heard this week that there are a thousand new regulations per day in the U.S., including federal, state and local jurisdictions. How is that possible? They are so complicated that the government doesn't even know how many there are.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3387

PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is a fact that I would like to use. If the gov doesn't know how many laws are passed,how did your informant track them?
Where is that info available?
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5259

PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Democrats held the Senate for a few months. there were "Democratic" Senators like Ben Nelson who were more conservative than the average Republican during the Nixon administration. If you don't like the facts, go out and make up a few of your own. Like your "fact" about regulations. You have yet to name a single one that you would like to change--or you have bothered to comment on.

For Democracy to fail, all it takes is for lazy people to believe bullshit.
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