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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4016

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Key, there are an awful lot of Vikings in those countries that didn't eventually screw their people, but as I recall they were pretty brutal back in the day as were the American Indians. Bhutan existed as a patchwork of minor warring fiefdoms until the early 17th century, when the area was unified by Shabdrung Ngawang Namgyal, who fled religious persecution in Tibet and cultivated a separate Bhutanese identity. In the early 20th century, Bhutan came into contact with the British Empire Blah blah blah (wiki)

My point is that we need only give any govt enough time and money, and they'll screw us. And the bigger they are, the harder they screw. Haven't archeologists determined that the garden of eden was in Iraq???
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3313

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see your point. it is the price we pay for being governed.
Afghanistan and others show us the price we pay for being ungoverned.
Belize is somewhere in between.
I personally dislike most governments inc our own but I really don't like the places without one where little taxes are levied.
I paid less than $2k/yr in fed income taxes during the last ten years because I am a landlord.This year a lot more but at that price I find America a bargain. Nice roads ,mostly honest cops and judges,etc....
Belize I would happily pay more than the zero I owe here if they supplied all those things.
It is the gross misuse of my tax money in the US that pisses me off no matter how much I owe.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4016

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Key- are you on Belize or Maui? I hope to spend some time on Maui soon. See you on the island if you're there.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3313

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I live in Makawao and will be back there in end of May. Let's go have some laughs. We don't sail all day everyday anymore.Just one session at Kanaha takes a couple of hours and we still have all day upcountry or North Shore around Paia.
Like sportscars? I race in SCCA with a 911S with a corvette motor,a Miata, a ground up custom race car based on a Porsche 944 and a Lotus Elise. We spent all these years in Belize on an island with no cars so I am going overboard with racing toys.
You really can swim in spots away from other visitors in waterfalls with guavas and flowers raining down up toward Hana, with a bit of local knowledge.
Like to zip line?
The road to Sprecks is almost as hard to find as the actual road to watch Jaws from the cliff.
Be sure and check me out this summer.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4016

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Will do. My home is in Kuau when I'm not in Cali. I used to own 3 Porsche's until I traded them in for windsurfing gear and a pickup truck. Also had a Suzuki gs 1000 when it was the fastest production vehicle on earth. Much older now, and slower. Looking forward to sparring!
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feuser



Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 1393

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

keycocker wrote:
I see your point. it is the price we pay for being governed.
Afghanistan and others show us the price we pay for being ungoverned.
Belize is somewhere in between.
I personally dislike most governments inc our own but I really don't like the places without one where little taxes are levied.
I paid less than $2k/yr in fed income taxes during the last ten years because I am a landlord.This year a lot more but at that price I find America a bargain. Nice roads ,mostly honest cops and judges,etc....
Belize I would happily pay more than the zero I owe here if they supplied all those things.
It is the gross misuse of my tax money in the US that pisses me off no matter how much I owe.


How much of the perception of gross misuse of tax money is fiction - a quasi-religious dogma of the right or simply a disagreement over priorities?

Government waste to me is a fleet of nuclear ballistic missile subs (with an estimated replacement cost of 4 billion each), and no worthy adversary. These boats exist to guarantee second-strike capability after a devastating preemptive nuclear strike.

The cold war is over, but someone is certainly making money selling us, the tax payers, these expensive boomer fleet over and over.

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florian - ny22

http://www.windsurfing.kasail.com/
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feuser



Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 1393

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

An excellent piece by This American Life (happy customers of mine, I am proud to say) about taxes, ideology and the reality of the "no new taxes" credo: What Kind Of Country...

The current podcast is free - get it while it's up on their home page:
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/

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florian - ny22

http://www.windsurfing.kasail.com/
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1922

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

feuser wrote

Quote:
How much of the perception of gross misuse of tax money is fiction - a quasi-religious dogma of the right or simply a disagreement over priorities?

Government waste to me is a fleet of nuclear ballistic missile subs (with an estimated replacement cost of 4 billion each), and no worthy adversary. These boats exist to guarantee second-strike capability after a devastating preemptive nuclear strike.

The cold war is over, but someone is certainly making money selling us, the tax payers, these expensive boomer fleet over and over.


I agree.

We all have our priorities in where our government should, or should not, spend. We just don't want to pay for it. Wasteful spending is in the eye of the beholder.

Personally, I would like to get an itemized bill from the various governments that show where my taxes are going. I wonder how many "hawks" would become "doves" if they really knew what their personal fiscal responsibility was for this defense spending.

Or, even more effective, would be to tie a portion of the defense budget directly to gasoline taxes. I bet we would do without a couple of subs.
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feuser



Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 1393

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboardhead wrote:
...


Personally, I would like to get an itemized bill from the various governments that show where my taxes are going. I wonder how many "hawks" would become "doves" if they really knew what their personal fiscal responsibility was for this defense spending.
...


Check out the podcast, coboardhead. There's an interesting segment about Colorado Springs in there - I am guessing you're familiar with the subject and would love to hear your perspective about this and the reporting done in the piece.

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florian - ny22

http://www.windsurfing.kasail.com/
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1922

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Feuser

Thanks for the link. I have not been following the Co. Springs budget issues...other side of the mountains. But, I have been somewhat involved with similar budget issues in my tiny (population 500) town in the mountains.

Our revenues stayed flat during the recession (largely sales tax on tourist based economy). So we were better off than many municipalities. However, the health insurance bill came due...Yikes! Premium increases of 15% on one of the biggest budget line item expenses to be absorbed into a previously "balanced" budget.

Options...1. Lay off someone and try and get the others to fill in. (this really doesn't work as it destroys morale. 2. Lay off someone and cut the services they performed. 3. Cut everyone's salary and see if they will still do their job for less pay. 4. Pass increased premiums to workers (same as a pay cut). 5. Increase deductibles on insurance (same as pay cut). 6. Increase taxes...this would require a voter referendum.

I don't know where we will end up.

I do know that all of us in private business are grappling with the same issues on our balance sheets. Increasing health care insurance costs, fuel costs, and other insurance are eating into flat revenue streams, so many of us are working for less pay right now. It does seem fair that a recession require everyone (including public employees) to knuckle down a bit.

In my little town, suggesting that we all make do with less has meant I am the only guy on the block that doesn't get my driveway cleared of snow. Shocked

edit...This podcast prompted a call to Town Hall. It appears that the decision was to can the building official and turn his duties over to the code enforcement officer (guy who measures signs, issue dog licenses etc). Great! We just had two major buildings nearly destroyed by fire because of faulty fire separation walls and luckily avoided deaths due to time of the year so we cut the guy who could prevent it from happening again? Sometimes you get what you pay for!
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