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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14453

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rigitrite wrote:
First of all, single payer medicine works. I've experienced it first hand. You're simply parroting talk radio....you can stop now.


Sorry, dood, but I've researched and written about it extensively, cited Canadian and UK Prime Ministers' and health care systems chiefs' accounting and condemnation of it, discussed it for many years with fellow cancer patients and some physicians from all over the world, and WS all summer with scores of Canucks. Their NH Systems are crumbling by every measure except one: it is better than nothing, at least until it kills you, as it has many of my cancer patient cyberfriends. Your empty-headed TR-only accusation is just stupid KC propaganda.

rigitrite wrote:
This figure about % of taxes paid is COMPLETELY bs, and you know it. It might be a fact but it's meaningless.
Percentage of INCOME is the only meaningful metric.

That's your opinion, not fact.

rigitrite wrote:
Why should Rupert Murdoc only pay 17% of his income in taxes (or no taxes at all), but I have to pay 32%????

Because he's already PAID his taxes on his HOLDINGS. His 17% is capital gains on net proceeds of his investments, without which industry would collapse. Raise them and federal revenues drop, certainly and significantly.

rigitrite wrote:
I could give a rip about your BS percent of all taxes paid

IRS data.

rigitrite wrote:
they don't get a pass. If they pay 90% of all taxes, then they SHOULD be paying 99.99%.

Ahhh, NOW we get it. You're JEALOUS because your own attempts to become a one-percenter have failed. You feel ... hell, you STATE ... that they owe you a living just because they're more successful than you.

How well has that lazy paradigm worked out in the Communist or Marxist world?

I researched upward mobility in government data a couple of years ago; US upward mobility was among the -- maybe THE -- highest in the world. Most people here of normal mental and/or physical capacity have excellent opportunity to be as successful as they rationally wish, with no upper limit. That motivates many people to get their asses in gear and make much better decisions than their less motivated bretheren do.

rigitrite wrote:
Your argument assumes that the people getting bailouts are like you and I, but they're not. The rich live in a completely separate tax universe. My neighbor cannot get a bailout on his $155,000 house that's being forclosed on, but his banks owner can easily get $700,000,000 of our tax money to cover his dip-$hit business ideas that didn't work out. Let's hear your rational for that?

I support virtually NO bailouts. On what planet does it make sense to punish success and reward failure?

rigitrite wrote:
As far as your idiot screed against the estate tax

Are you capable of rational adult discourse?

rigitrite wrote:
if you're against the estate tax, you are in favor of a permenant aristocracy in this country.

-- (ya don't like bullets? How about dashes? They promote clarity.) Those upward mobility data show that MANY "aristocrats" (top quintile members) lose their fiscal asses every year. Being rich is no guarantee of staying rich even without death taxes.
-- That's THEIR DAMNED MONEY, NOT YOURS OR MINE. Most of them EARNED it, and IT DOES NOT BELONG TO YOU OR ME.
-- Better yet, their degree of wealth, if it came from hard work, good ideas, and good decisions, was accessible to you and me, too. I don't know why you didn't get rich, but I didn't because I wasn't willing to work that hard or take their risks and wasn't born with superstar skills.
-- Thus I had to get adequate money to retire early the same way most millionaires become millionaires: I lived way within my means. I have always spent half to a third of what my income peers do, and it has paid off. $200 shades, my ass.
-- Most important of all, not one cent of the superrich's wealth was taken from you by force until now, with rising taxes. YOU chose to buy their gasoline, concert and movie and game tickets, computers, cars, movie popcorn, Nike shoes, $200,000 homes, etc., but now you want the government to take your voluntarily-spent money back from them by force of law and give it back to you or your neighbor? That's insane.

rigitrite wrote:
Plus you don't understand the estate tax...and you don't know anyone who's paid it, since it kicks in at like $2.5 million and ONLY applies to an INCREASE in wealth.

YOU brought up the estate tax (Buffett was still alive, last I heard). Looks like YOU don't understand that paying 50% of the increase in value of the small business the deceased owned very often forces the survivors to sell the company -- often a family farm owned for generations -- to pay the death tax. My farmer inlaws see emergency auctions regularly as their aging peers "buy the farm" --- thus the term.

rigitrite wrote:
spare us from ALL your bullets.

As in STFU? I think you just answered my question about adult behavior.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 2025

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rititrite

A single payer system is not in the cards in the US. Regardless if you believe it to be a competitive advantage. There are other good examples of non-single payer systems that provide competitve health care results including the German and Dutch systems.

Quote:
Our auto makers have a difficult time competing with other countries, because they have to pay for healthcare for all their workers, plus retirement, etc.... Toyota, Honda, Daimler, VW they don't pay dime one for their workers; the government does.


Are you sure about this? German companies pay health insurance.

http://www.toytowngermany.com/wiki/Health_insurance

You might also be interested to know that the number one exporter of auto's (by value) in the US is BMW. They export the X3 and X5 worldwide at great profit. Honda and Toyota produce some of the cars highest in domestic content. So, it's not all about health care costs for workers.

Keep in mind that we, effectively, do have a single payer for 45% of health care now and it has done little to reign in costs. There is a lot more involved. We are fat, lazy and feel entitled to overuse health care resources.
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2735

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rigitrite wrote:
spare us from ALL your bullets.

Go easy on Iso, or he'll have trouble signing his next disability check. That is, he'll have trouble depositing into his bank the money he skimmed from your tax payments.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3517

PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rigit if you speak to iso he will answer with a stream of insults and opinions he will assign to you.
GT and co board were just trying to discuss with him and got to know him better so they don't read his posts anymore either.
I don't think there is anyone reading them now but you.
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rigitrite



Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 305
Location: Kansas City

PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Health insurance has been obligatory for everybody in Germany, including the self-employed, since 2007.


That's new, and disappointing. Last time I was in Germany was before 2007, and their healthcare was 100% single payer, and it was exceptionally effective.


Iso, you are the king Midas of wrong; please keep your hands to yourself.

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Kansas City
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3517

PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you know iso is punishing about twenty posters here by pretending his software blocks their posts so he doesn't read them.
He is punishing the rest of us by reading our posts.
Gives you clue why his "facts" are so far from reality.
I recall him saying obamas policies will cause the US to collapse in Jan 2012.
Unemployment is down and o is polling well ahead of my own parties clown candidates.
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feuser



Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 1395

PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rigitrite wrote:
Quote:
Health insurance has been obligatory for everybody in Germany, including the self-employed, since 2007.


That's new, and disappointing. Last time I was in Germany was before 2007, and their healthcare was 100% single payer, and it was exceptionally effective.


Iso, you are the king Midas of wrong; please keep your hands to yourself.


It was not 100% single payer when I lived there (-1992) but there was a public option that provided coverage for about three quarters of Germans. It did work, and it precluded no one from getting supplemental private insurance or getting the treatment they need.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_in_Germany#Public_insurance

Problem is, the US pays too much for health care:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Health_care_cost_rise.svg

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florian - ny22

http://www.windsurfing.kasail.com/
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feuser



Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 1395

PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:

...
I researched upward mobility in government data a couple of years ago; US upward mobility was among the -- maybe THE -- highest in the world.
...


Another F for your research:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socio-economic_mobility_in_the_United_States

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florian - ny22

http://www.windsurfing.kasail.com/
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3517

PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great link.well documented article with many studies.
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2735

PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

keycocker wrote:
Did you know iso is punishing about twenty posters here by pretending his software blocks their posts so he doesn't read them.
He is punishing the rest of us by reading our posts.

That's what makes him so much fun. We can pepper Iso with rebuttals to his nonsensical crap and ridicule him for his ridiculous horse manure -- and he reads and swallows it while pretending that he never sees it.

Iso has no such software. It's all in his fantasy world, between his ears, under his tinfoil hat.


feuser wrote:
isobars wrote:

...
I researched upward mobility in government data a couple of years ago; US upward mobility was among the -- maybe THE -- highest in the world.
...

Another F for your research:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socio-economic_mobility_in_the_United_States

Research? Iso research something? Hell, he just fabricates what he wants and then makes it look like someone else's horse manure.

He's isofactually creative, just like his idols, Faux News and Limbaugh.
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