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Experiences while taking blood thinners and windsurfing.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 9477

PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will say that since my earlier two posts in 2012, I had a second heart attack in 2013. I've attributed my earlier decision to discontinue taking Plavix (Clopidogrel) as a likely reason why I had my second heart attack. Since then, I've committed to taking Clopidogrel religiously for the rest of my life. I should emphasize that I also continue to take other heart and cholesterol related medications (Carvedilol, Ramipril, Atorvastitin and Niacin ER), so I'm not relying solely on Clopidogrel to address my heart disease.

I'm happy to say that I've had no further heart problems since 2013, so I remain convinced that I'm on the right track.
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dvCali



Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 1068

PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ittiandro wrote:
...

Some people in this thread have expressed reserves about doctors being stubbornly ultra-conservative, if not incompetent and all too keen to unnecessarily prescribe medications, if anything to play it safe, in order to avoid malpractice suits.. I had similar thoughts, but I wouldn’t go as far as some have gone.

For doctors, evaluating the risk and prescribing medication accordingly is often more of an art, with a subjective component than a clear cut matter, obeying to objective criteria. In my case, I do wonder if my condition, clinically, was really so much worse this year from last year to the point of justifying this time an official diagnosis of A.F. and consequent medication,( which, at least in one case( the blood thinner) is potentially dangerous in itself ...


... a windsurfing forum is a pretty bad place to get medical advise. The format guarantees that some ignorant prick will show up and pontificate about matters upon which he or she has at most a superficial understanding. And the pricks will always tell you that the real experts (physicians in this case) know nothing ...

One comes here for support, share experiences, a cheer up, but for real advise is better go somewhere else (as you are obviously already doing!).
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wernerhickey



Joined: 13 Jun 2015
Posts: 65

PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dvCali - holly cr@p is that necessary? This thread goes back to 2012 and some of the comments that have obviously triggered you do as well. I don't think anyone was actually asking or actually giving medical advice, just their perspective on a take it or leave it basis.
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capetonian



Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 1103
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can give you my experience: diagnosed with sick sinus syndrome at age 43, referred to cardiologist who referred to elctrophysiologist, pacemaker put in at 44, Afib diagnosed at 45, ablation done and successful. Sleep apnea diagnosed at 46. Been using a CPAP ever since. Cardiologist researched subject and came to conclusion that all heart problems might have originally been caused by long term undiagnosed sleep apnea. Went so far as to imply that if the sleep apnea had been diagnosed 10 years earlier I might never have had any heart problems. I've always been skinny and fit so never had the physique to put sleep apnea on the radar of the doctors.

So my 2 cents is have a sleep study done, and if you have sleep apnea, discuss the results with your cardiologist and electrophysiologist.
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 5065
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wernerhickey wrote:
dvCali - holly cr@p is that necessary? This thread goes back to 2012 and some of the comments that have obviously triggered you do as well. I don't think anyone was actually asking or actually giving medical advice, just their perspective on a take it or leave it basis.


I take a neutral stance on this, the advise , suggestions , past experience with whatever hold true with any subject matter, on here. Since people react different both to a injury or disease and sail size , it’s all just blowing in the wind.
Of particular note the treatment on serious illness since 2012 has changed dramatically even in the last 2 years. Research taken large bounds.

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dvCali



Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 1068

PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wernerhickey wrote:
dvCali - holly cr@p is that necessary? This thread goes back to 2012 and some of the comments that have obviously triggered you do as well. I don't think anyone was actually asking or actually giving medical advice, just their perspective on a take it or leave it basis.

Oh ... it was just a general comment, sorry. I follow Mountain Bike forum and the problem is the same when it comes to health advise, although the loony voices don't stand out as much given the much larger numbers of participants.

People, quite understandably, freak out when it comes to health. And as a consequence "advise" can get very strange and belligerent. I had a friend quite obsessively insisting, among other health advise, that my cholesterol levels (or was it heart disease?) could be adjusted if I followed her diet to regulate my (urine) PH ...


Last edited by dvCali on Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 5065
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dvCali wrote:
ittiandro wrote:
...

Some people in this thread have expressed reserves about doctors being stubbornly ultra-conservative, if not incompetent and all too keen to unnecessarily prescribe medications, if anything to play it safe, in order to avoid malpractice suits.. I had similar thoughts, but I wouldn’t go as far as some have gone.

For doctors, evaluating the risk and prescribing medication accordingly is often more of an art, with a subjective component than a clear cut matter, obeying to objective criteria. In my case, I do wonder if my condition, clinically, was really so much worse this year from last year to the point of justifying this time an official diagnosis of A.F. and consequent medication,( which, at least in one case( the blood thinner) is potentially dangerous in itself ...


... a windsurfing forum is a pretty bad place to get medical advise. The format guarantees that some ignorant prick will show up and pontificate about matters upon which he or she has at most a superficial understanding. And the pricks will always tell you that the real experts (physicians in this case) know nothing ...

One comes here for support, share experiences, a cheer up, but for real advise is better go somewhere else (as you are obviously already doing!).


I have reread this post, I don’t feel any apology, sorry is needed.
The richardheads will remain, unfortunate at times they sound convincing in discussions, which they probably believe themselves.

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ittiandro



Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 251

PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dvCali wrote:


... a windsurfing forum is a pretty bad place to get medical advise. The format guarantees that some ignorant prick will show up and pontificate about matters upon which he or she has at most a superficial understanding. And the pricks will always tell you that the real experts (physicians in this case) know nothing ...

One comes here for support, share experiences, a cheer up, but for real advise is better go somewhere else (as you are obviously already doing!).


I totally agree, The sense of my post was not to ask for medical advice, but to share my concern as a a windsurfer with other fellow windsurfers about how their condition has affected the practice of our sport..

Indeed, there are too many people out there who are not medically trained, but who have perhaps..just read a lot from second sources and who speak as doctors..

Those who have raised the issue of electrophysiologists vs cardiologists evoke a sort of Manichean dualism, implying that the the former are always better then the latter when it comes to diagnosing and treating bio-electrical problem like arrythmias and A Fib .

Perhaps these people are right, but I don't know much electrophysiology .
All I can say is that there is an electrophysiology departnent at my hospital which is under the supervision of the cardiology department, headed by my treating cardiologist. If he felt the necessity of putting me through an EP test, I think that he would have done so.

I already had a few ECG’s when I was first admitted to the E.R., as well as a blood test. Next week my cardiologist will give me an echocardiogram as well.
I’ll speak to him about the electrophysiology issue, but I have a sense that his diagnosis and the treatment he prescribed cover pretty well my condition and its causes ( in medical jargon the “ etiology”) and that there is not much that an EP test contribute.

For one thing, I wouldn’t have felt comfortable if, after two episodes of atrial fibrillation, my cardiologist decided not to put me on medication simply on the basis of an E.P. test. Both of us would have taken a risk and he knew it all too well.

Ittiandro
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 3469

PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

People seeking medical advice should do so with care. However, my suggestion about an Electrophysiologist (electrician) vs Cardiologist (plumber) is sound. An Electrophysiologist is a Cardiologist that specializes in the heart's electrical issues. That's what is needed for a-fib.

If at some point you choose to have an ablation (radio frequency burns inside the left atrium to create scar tissue to block the abnormal electrical impulses), the Electrophysiologist, possibly with Cardiothoracic surgeon will do the ablation, NOT a Cardiologist. Should you choose to have an ablation down the road, it's critical to find the best Electrophysiologist surgeon you can, someone that has done thousands. That's a critical question to ask - how many have you done?

The a-fib road can be a long one, depending on the frequency of the a-fib, the duration of the episodes and if they convert back to normal without a cardioversion (shocking the heart back into normal rhythm).

All this means is that you should do your own research, talk to your Doctors and learn as much as possible to guide you through the a-fib.

And again, chances are, bleeding will not be a serious issue if you crash a lot. Some of the newer blood thinner have reversal agents that can be given by the ER if necessary. That's something you should research and check with your doctors.

You said:
Quote:
If he felt the necessity of putting me through an EP test, I think that he would have done so.

The only test to confirm a-fib is catching the a-fib on an ECK or EKG. Also a heart monitor that you wear for week to record unusual rhythms which can be transmitted back to the Doctor. Once a-fib is confirmed, then blood thinners, heart rate control drugs and another drug to help minimize the episodes is the norm. There can be other electrical issues other than a-fib, so figuring out exactly what you have is important.

As I mentioned before, go to the afibbers forum, and ask questions to learn as much as you can.
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ittiandro



Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 251

PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:

The only test to confirm a-fib is catching the a-fib on an ECK or EKG. Also a heart monitor that you wear for week to record unusual rhythms which can be transmitted back to the Doctor. Once a-fib is confirmed, then blood thinners, heart rate control drugs and another drug to help minimize the episodes is the norm. There can be other electrical issues other than a-fib, so figuring out exactly what you have is important.

As I mentioned before, go to the afibbers forum, and ask questions to learn as much as you can.


Thank you for your feedback.
As I said, I already had at least two ECG(EKG) ’s at the E.R , I had a blood test, I am due for an ultrasound echocardiogram next week and I already had a 24 hr Holter test at home when I had my first episode of A Fib one year ago , so I think I am pretty well covered.
Mother Nature will do the rest (in my own best interest, I hope, but I’ll help her..)

Reading about other people in this Forum having had heart problems of this nature and still living a full and happy life doing our favorite sport is reassuring..

All the best

Ittiandro
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