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Islam and Al Queda
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5003

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:09 pm    Post subject: Islam and Al Queda Reply with quote

As we continue to be bogged down in Afghanistan, and fund corruption and terrorist networks in Pakistan, I continue to look for analysis of the Muslim world and the larger meaning of the "Arab Spring." One of the best articles I've read is by Robin Wright, a fellow at the Woodrow Wilson Center. That article can be read in full here: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/people-places/The-Struggle-Within-Islam.html

Much of the push behind the current reform efforts is the youth bulge in the Muslim world. As the article puts it:
Quote:
One million Arabs--a third of the population in 22 Arab countries --are between ages 15 and 29. ...they want a bright future--from jobs and healt care to a free press and a political voice. The majority recognizes that Al Queda can't provide any of that.

The youth-inspired upheavals of the euphoric Arab Spring have stunned Al Queda as much as the autocrats who were ousted.

Wright likens Al Queda to the Ku Klux Klan. Interesting read.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 3961

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There has been terrorism in the middle east for over 100 years. Just like slavery and oppression, it may take 150 years to achieve these goals. I'm guessing we are at about 1940 in the muslim world.

The big difference is that they don't have our founding fathers guiding them. Let's hope they can find equally brave, inspiring, just individuals to craft their new system.

Meanwhile, Lara Login was recently brutalized and raped by dozens of Egyptians while thousands cheered. THE AMERICANS I KNOW WOULD HAVE BEATEN THOSE IDIOTS SILLY. There is a huge cultural difference between us and them.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5003

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm certainly not surprised that Steven bard shows up, doesn't read the article, and makes a bigoted comment. Knuckle draggers of the world unite, don't disturb your belief system with a few new ideas.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 3961

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mac, you know not what you speak. That is a very cheerful argument that the author makes, but the reality on 911 was millions of muslims celebrated in the streets. Lara Logan may have an interesting take on it after her experience.

However like I said, I believe it will take them as long as it took us to respect others. Something you have not learned.

Just because they have poets and comedians doesn't make them rational. Lenny Bruce was around in the 50's. Look how long it took to get here. If you think the Christians are crazy, you might want to check out islam for a real mind bending experience.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5003

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At least you are consistent bard. You can be relied on to say something that is so bigoted that I need to take a shower after reading it.

Gang rape is a crime, undertaken by criminals. It happens in America too:

Quote:
October 27, 2009

An ambulance delivers a California high school student to the hospital Saturday. Police say she was gang raped.

Investigators say as many as 20 people were involved in or stood and watched the gang rape of a 15-year-old girl outside a California high school homecoming dance Saturday night.


I wouldn't ascribe the many crimes committed by American "Christian" zealots to their religion, but to their irrational behavior. We could start with the Ku Klux Klan, look at the Branch Dividians, and throw in Timothy McVie for frosting. But these people committed crimes because of pathological values or irrational beliefs, not their religion.

Here's Webster's definition of a bigot:

Quote:
: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially: one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance


Was that your picture next to the definition?
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3237

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"reality on 911 was millions of muslims celebrated in the streets"
A few facts to remember;
thousands (not milliions)of Palistinians did celebrate because they regard us as the enemy,just as we celebrated each victory over the Germans in that war.
-100s of thousands of real Muslims demonstrated AGAINST Bin Laden including in places like Iran.
-Bush and other American bigots blamed Muslims in general and Iranis in particular for being all murderers and the Axis of Evil,
-Afterwards they demonstrated in the streets against us.
Bigotry causes hatred, then the bigots point to the hate against them and use that to 'prove' something.
Muslims wrote me and called me in person regretting the 911 events,though they had nothing to do with it by being Muslims.
The promotion of hatred against Muslims goes on in America to this day, and is justified because they hate us back for being KKK types ourselves.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5003

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KC--Actually, Bush was pretty good and articulate on Muslims. He preached tolerance, and I believed him, at least on that one issue.

The battle is for some extremist sects of Muslims--ironically many related to the Wahabi sect from Saudi Arabia. And as most conservatives fail to realize, even those who aren't knuckle draggers, it is a battle for hearts and minds. We lost it. We also substantially weakened our military, and our economic might, and showed we can get bogged down in the Middle East and Afghanistan/Pakistan just as readily as in Vietnam. Without that weakening of American might, you would never have had the play that occurred this week at the UN.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 3961

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cicero told the Senate: "For this day's work, lords, you have encouraged treason and opened the prison doors to free the traitors. A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and he carries his banners openly against the city. But the traitor moves among those within the gates freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears no traitor; he speaks in the accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their garments, and he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation; he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of a city; he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to be feared. The traitor is the carrier of the plague. You have unbarred the gates of Rome to him."
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MULLDE102f



Joined: 15 Jun 1997
Posts: 87

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@stevenbard: is there a point in there somewhere?
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3237

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mac: With Bush it was the Axis of Evil thing that turned the Iranis and others against us. This was in those first days when he was just reading off the prompter.
I heard something interesting from two Muslim friends lately. Those in the Muslim world who hate us are the conservatives.Other Muslims give the subject just as much thought as we give the KKK.
The current hate campaign against Muslims in the US is mainly among conservatives esp those with a KKK mindset.
This is a war of hate between conservatives, while placing non bigots in danger from attacks by conservative criminals.
So how much support do these !@@#$holes have in their own countries?Many Muslim nations hold elections and these guys are always on the ballot but rarely win important office.
For most of my life the KKK and others have been running for office and they also rarely win. When they do it makes big news.
Cast in these terms I found the whole thing a lot easier to understand.
Many KKK types are in church every Sunday just like their counterparts in the Middle East.
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