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hybrid race board for distance sailing.... RS:X perhaps????
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 1392

PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A P.I.T.A Mike! But I carry split kayak paddles on the front deck. If becalmed, I drop the boom over the back deck, (rests near the straps), sit in front of the mast base facing the rear of the board with legs and feet under the sail to balance it and keep it clear of the water, then paddle the board backwards.

Longest I ever paddled that way was 12 miles (3 and a bit hours). It isn't as difficult as imagined. (Similar to kayak.) Only irritation is in a swell when the sail wafts up into air with every drop downwards! A bit of foot juggling keeps it out of the water.

In a sudden tight spot such as sudden lack of blow when about to be swept into rocks, a similar technique, but, no time to unclip paddles. Just lie down on front of board, (with sail balamced on legs as with paddles), and swim like **** backstroke. Amazingly fast when scared stiff!
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joe_windsurfer



Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

as usual - i need to agree with John Ingebritsen
for a fellow that apparently LOVES to RIP , he has the know how about lite wind sailing !!!
ie a "raceboard" sounds like the answer here

this year i acquired a Fanatic Ultra CAT and immediately started to venture MUCH further than i
ever would even with my 160 liter 79 cm wide shortboard
Tinho's board does NOT have a centreboard
the Kona has it's pros n cons in this arena
you have already mentioned the issues with Formula

ie sounds like it's time for a "raceboard" - and the standard here seems to be about 380 cm long and 66 cm wide
Remi of StarBoard and race fame shows off some weird plate on a Phantom Race 377 = even earlier planing ??
if you are interested in such boards - suggest you check the LBWS website and forum
http://www.lbwindsurfing.com/
happy cruising - getting kinda cold for that now, non ?? Very Happy

http://joewindsurfer.com
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14481

PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GURGLETROUSERS wrote:
A P.I.T.A Mike!!


Yeah, but how about Grayson?
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5968

PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess isobars is forgetting that we all take risks of some kind when windsurfing. I don't think there's a windsurfer alive that hasn't had to swim in on occasion when the wind suddenly dies. Really though, if the truth be told, isobars is just trolling for attention.
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zirtaeb



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 2431

PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As said, sail rolled up, everthing aboard, paddling speed is app 3 mph with paddles, faster than most on SUP's. That's enough.
Wide is great, daggerboard a neccesity, but durability the number one concern. That goes for finboxes, tracks, masts, sails, booms, and most other things.
One fun trip we used to do 25 years ago was to sail from NaturalBridges up to Waddell, and even Ano, and back as the winds built by 1PM. Course boards dominated.
Very similar to ONeillClassic, or Bridge to Bridges.
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jlooby



Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A light kona with a 'bat wings' - that could be awesome (providing the bat wings actually work!). Maybe a good winter project for someone with board shaping skills. Not sure what one would call the tail - a duckbat tail?
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grayson



Joined: 09 May 2003
Posts: 74
Location: Burlington, VT

PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks all for the input!

Maybe a raceboard is the answer I'm looking for, and I'm just hung up on the idea of formula style sailing when really powered up. Can anybody tell me how raceboards do in crazy powered-up to over-powered conditions, specifically sailing steep upwind and downwind angles? Is it easy to achieve efficient upwind angles when powered up riding the fin? When sailing downwind wicked overpowered (i.e. conditions where you HAVE to point deep enough so the sail depowers some) is it a white-knuckle leg-cramping teeth-gritting grunt through it kind of experience? Or can you actually comfortably sail deep enough downwind to depower the sail effectively, and do so somewhat comfortably?

I tried to emphasize the importance of a "cheater strap" for me. It's one of my favorite things about my formula board. Never have I been able to sail such deep downwind angles in such overpowered conditions so COMFORTABLY as I do on my formula gear when I step into that cheater strap. Step to the rail, and things get tense and scary downwind overpowered. But in the cheater strap it's unbelievably comfortable to scream nearly dead downwind in ridiculously overpowered conditions. I REALLY LIKE THAT. Very Happy I've never been able to feel anything like it on shortboards or on my Kona. On the Kona I've actually tried stepping over into the leeward back strap in similar conditions, and it almost works as a cheater strap, but I never quite felt that totally comfortable solid stance I feel on my formula gear going nearly dead downwind in way too much breeze. Maybe needs more work. Any of you had any success using the leeward back strap as a cheater strap in overpowered downwind sailing?

So I think a big part of what attracted me to the RS:X is this: It's the only board I've seen with formula-style width+fin+cheaterstrap, AND a centerboard for lightwind conditions. General consensus seems to be that it sucks, but I might still want to sail one to see for myself. Anybody know where in the northeast I might be able to demo one? Maybe ideally someplace where I might also be able to check out something more raceboard like?
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grayson



Joined: 09 May 2003
Posts: 74
Location: Burlington, VT

PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sailingjoke wrote:
Greyson, are you referring to Lake Champlain sailing?

Yes, Lake Champlain. I'd like to start doing a lot more trips like this downwinder, but without the car-shuttle home. I put in some 60+ mile days this season, like this one, (and this was a pretty crappy season for wind here overall) but I'd like to start pushing farther from home.
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grayson



Joined: 09 May 2003
Posts: 74
Location: Burlington, VT

PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

antonius wrote:
Have you (or anyone else here - John?) tried putting a much bigger -biggest powerbox you can find- fin on the Kona to improve up-wind planing performance?

I'm intrigued by this too, and would love to hear from others who might've tried it. I did upgrade to a racier fin on my Kona, but only added a couple cm. It's nice, but not a game-changer for pointing angles. Might try a huge one just to see how far this can be taken. Would be great if it proved to be a good short-term solution to what I'm looking for. Heluvalot cheaper than a new board! Wink
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zirtaeb



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 2431

PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would have picked a raceboard, like an Equipe or Cat myself, based on a couple years of racing in SanFranciscoBay. A redone finbox, a wide aspect ratio fin, a much bigger race centerboard (if you need the upwind, and willing to dance around the blade when it's up), and some safety hardware in case the track fails.
You won't get Formula perfomance in 13-25mph, but it's much safer to slog in 3 mph or even 1 mph.
Upwind, it's not bad with daggerdown, you in front set of straps.
Downwind, it's hairball all the way back with 10' of nose bouncing around.
Compromises.
BTW, lots of days, here at Berkeley, I can sail 50 miles with a slalom board in just around 2.5 hours, never coming off a plane, never failing to plane out of jibes, 2 mile reach with wind all the way.
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