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boom failure- this ever happen to anyone else?
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slambo



Joined: 06 Jul 1992
Posts: 91

PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 5:18 am    Post subject: boom failure- this ever happen to anyone else? Reply with quote

Hi there, my fairly new chinook big wave carbon boom failed me yesterday on a great day only after 15 mins of sailing. This boom was new since fall of 2009 and has limited use in mostly flat water. The 2 screw bolts that holds the arm in the head snapped and thus I was screwed. The arm pulls out while I was powered up on a 5.0 and my pull away was so strong it snapped the carbon tail completely at the clew. Fortunately, the boom was still attached and I was able to sail to a side shoreline. Lucky I was sailing in a bay that had a "L" shoreline

I have all chinook carbons and love them. Some are 4-6 yrs old and they have always held up great but this was weird- I did hear a snap sound after jibing and wasn't sure if it was the mast but all was sweet until it happened.

This happen to anyone else? Are arm pieces available for purchase- just need one arm, new screws and a new tail piece- prob call chinook and see what they say. I wondered if this was a defect? Maybe its time to go to the new one piece from this yr.



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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3346

PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yup, some brands get more distribution than others, most break after a number of uses depending on their construction. i've been sailing the epic brand for lots of years. they have their issues too, but usually last very long. aluminum: about 300,000 pumps, carbon, about 1,000,000.

harness lines last very long from epic:

http://www.aerotechsails.com/harness09.html

http://www.aerotechsails.com/booms09.html

monocoque boom bodies tend to extend the life of the boom.

_________________
www.aerotechsails.com
www.exocet-original.com
www.iwindsurf.com
http://www.epicgearusa.com/
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jfeehan



Joined: 27 Jul 1998
Posts: 152

PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow...

I have one of those booms, and I just assumed that it was one piece of carbon.

It sounds like Chinook has a new model that is a single piece.

Is it common for carbon booms to be made of two pieces like this?

I just don't see that it makes sense to go through the trouble of using carbon, but then use such a poor design.
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wsurfn1426



Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 221

PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slambo:

First I am very sorry. Boom breakage sucks, and especially on a relatively new carbon boom.

The first thing to do is contact Chinook. They are great to deal with. They are windsurfers and North American, and it is like talking to a friend. They understand, and take pride in their products. I have had to deal with them on a few problems, and they (especially Andy) have gone out of their way to help.

Jeff:

Before we slam the design, note that Slambo and a lot of us have had these booms take some serious abuse. Failure happens to all booms. I am on my third Maui Sails boom. They are also great about taking care of their customers. All booms break.

The advantage of the 2 piece design was that you could replace a side if necessary, and it could be broken down smaller for travel.

The down side on this boom has been that the 2 piece front end is not as stiff as a monocoque design. This most noticeable in the bigger booms.

The triple head design had some early cage/flap issues, that were fixed, but the big thing was some people crushed their SDMasts with the huge mechanical advantage the triple clamp design provides.

They moved on to the monocoque front end with Aeron type clamp on with the Pro One Carbon. My friend has one and loves it. I saw online, they are moving to a twin pin rear adjustment clip (no metal) too for increased stiffness this year.

Slambo, it looks like the front carbon tube that is crimped shaped so the bolts pass through it, cracked and failed. One possibility is the bolts were overtorqued, but could just have been a manufacture defect.


Chinook makes very good stuff and are one few manufactures that still makes some of their products in the USA.

I bet Chinook will help you out.
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capetonian



Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 1131
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jfeehan wrote:
Is it common for carbon booms to be made of two pieces like this?
All of mine are monocoque (HPL, Maui Sails, NP)

jfeehan wrote:

I just don't see that it makes sense to go through the trouble of using carbon, but then use such a poor design.
I think that was a big driver for Chinook to go monocoque.
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mat-ty



Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 7843

PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still swear by aluminum, zero problems in twelve years, a third of the price.

I just hope that new Dreamliner(all carbon) airplane does not crack in half , after the daily abuse of flying.
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wsurfn1426



Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 221

PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think the HPL counts as true monocoque. In HPL and Fiberspar, the arms are bonded to the front end instead of a continuous one piece mould.

I agree, Aeron (who manufactures MS and NP) pushed the single piece mould that incorporates the arms to provide a stiffer front end, has pushed Chinook to improve their design. HPL is gone. Is Fiberspar still making booms?

The other major player is E Fwu Enterprise Co Ltd in Taiwan who manufacture Autima, Epic and the Windwing vesion of Gulftech. These are bonded front end booms. I had one of these Gulftechs and was very disappointed in the quality. Got what I paid for (cheap).

The al360 from Italy looks very strong, but I do not know a lot about them, and if you can get them here in the US.
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johnl



Joined: 05 Jun 1994
Posts: 1329
Location: Hood River OR

PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mat-ty wrote:
I still swear by aluminum, zero problems in twelve years, a third of the price.

I just hope that new Dreamliner(all carbon) airplane does not crack in half , after the daily abuse of flying.



Funny, I've snapped 3 aluminum booms. Two of mine and one rental. To be fair, they were the older design before the head clamp rotated. Also all were used in saltwater which will weaken aluminum. But I changed to Carbon because of the stiffness. But the reality is all of your windsurfing gear has a shelf life. How long depends on the design, how you use it, and how you take care of it. But nothing is indestructable...
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boardsurfr



Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 1245

PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mat-ty wrote:
I still swear by aluminum, zero problems in twelve years, a third of the price.


I use aluminum or hybrid boom (carbon tail end). I have had two aluminum booms break in the last 3-4 years, one HPL, another a cheap brand. The HPL broke towards the front of the arm, not close to any attachments points. The other boom had shown clear signs of aging before it broke. The HPL had not, but it was my most-used boom for my biggest (8.5 m) sail.

I'm inclined to believe John's estimates. Did not know you count your pumps, John! And John ... do booms last longer if you don't pump?
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speedysailor



Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 841

PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnl wrote:
mat-ty wrote:
I still swear by aluminum, zero problems in twelve years, a third of the price.

I just hope that new Dreamliner(all carbon) airplane does not crack in half , after the daily abuse of flying.



Funny, I've snapped 3 aluminum booms. Two of mine and one rental. To be fair, they were the older design before the head clamp rotated. Also all were used in saltwater which will weaken aluminum. But I changed to Carbon because of the stiffness. But the reality is all of your windsurfing gear has a shelf life. How long depends on the design, how you use it, and how you take care of it. But nothing is indestructable...
Ahh, salt not only weakens aluminum, it destroys it. We don't need a chemistry lesson here, but I would like one on this topic.
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