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Has America reached an "Oh Sh!t" moment?
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2698

PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevenbard wrote:

Ahhh, the french revolution part deux?

I dunno. Do you look like Liz?
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3441

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"wealth that draws them, but the opportunity to innovate and develop ideas. Perhaps they should now move to China (most of the worlds manufacturing seems to have done so) while we in the West piddle about trying to save the planet!"
I live in tourists towns and talk a lot to strangers(I am a stranger,too). What draws many young Brits I speak with is that very world we mase in the Us by protecting our environment and working together t o make the US a great place to live.
All those rules,EPA, ...
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 1363

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you miss my point Keycocker. We, over here, are more regulated by politically correct and initiative killing business rules and regulations than your country.

As I'm sure you are aware, our government is obsessed with the environment and wishes to impose the worlds toughest environmental restrictions on our country, as some sort of example to the rest of the world! This would be at a disastrous cost to our economy, and competitiveness. Fortunately, the current financial crisis in Europe is tempering their eagerness.

America has always been seen by Europeans (and with reason) as being the land of opportunity. But you now appear to be going down the same overburdoned and over regulated route as ourselves. China is not, and they are clearly winning.

So what do we do, and where does a sensible competitive balance lie?
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14310

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GURGLETROUSERS wrote:
We, over here, are more regulated by politically correct and initiative killing business rules and regulations than your country.

As I'm sure you are aware, our government is obsessed with the environment and wishes to impose the worlds toughest environmental restrictions on our country, as some sort of example to the rest of the world! This would be at a disastrous cost to our economy, and competitiveness.

America has always been seen by Europeans (and with reason) as being the land of opportunity. But you now appear to be going down the same overburdoned and over regulated route as ourselves. China is not, and they are clearly winning.

So what do we do, and where does a sensible competitive balance lie?


Probably in the same type of free market capitalism that made us great in the first place, with one change: make the punishment for white collar crime so extreme that no sane person will attempt it. One example: a year in real prison for every individual you cheat, until the tally hits 50. At 50, you are executed. Another example: the people you cheat are given an hour with you in a dark alley. Another idea: a lobotomy.

Why so extreme? Because people like that are probably destroying the foundation of our nation faster and more surely than is radical Islam by making anti-capitalist politicians like Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Durbin, etc. look rational by comparison.

What's wrong with this concept:
A guy has a great idea for a product or service, but he lacks the skills to market and manufacture it. So he decides to hire marketing and manufacturing experts. He lacks the funds to buy those skills, though, so he has to find investors. Now several, or several hundred, people are risking time and money on the idea. If it works, they -- and the entire economy and the IRS -- reap profits from the guy's original idea.

That's America at its finest, yet is what the OWS protestors, the Democratic Party, the administration, and Barack Obama personally are dedicated to destroying. They don't need no steenkin' Al Queda, John Kerry, EPA, or windmills to do that; all they need is enough votes for Barack Obama and a majority of Democratic Congressmen next November, and our nation will never recover during our lifetimes.

I can't believe how many people think that's acceptable.


Last edited by isobars on Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2698

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
...and our nation will never recover during our lifetimes.

That's already true, thanks totally to the mindlessness of the Bush administration and its ungodly wars against innocent nations.

And it's the WORLD that will never recover due to Cheney's (et al) thoughtless selfishness.
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feuser



Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 1395

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GURGLETROUSERS wrote:
I think you miss my point Keycocker. We, over here, are more regulated by politically correct and initiative killing business rules and regulations than your country.

As I'm sure you are aware, our government is obsessed with the environment and wishes to impose the worlds toughest environmental restrictions on our country, as some sort of example to the rest of the world! This would be at a disastrous cost to our economy, and competitiveness. Fortunately, the current financial crisis in Europe is tempering their eagerness.

America has always been seen by Europeans (and with reason) as being the land of opportunity. But you now appear to be going down the same overburdoned and over regulated route as ourselves. China is not, and they are clearly winning.

So what do we do, and where does a sensible competitive balance lie?


Strange - the German economy isn't exactly crippled by their rules....

Do you really think corporations should be allowed to compete with people for clean air and water? Does doing away with regulations and laws create companies that can be competitive in the future and in other markets with perhaps even stricter laws? What happens to the game if you let the players tear up the rule book? Come on, Gurgle - I know you know better.

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florian - ny22

http://www.windsurfing.kasail.com/
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3441

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I asked 7 expats in the US in Maui why they came to the US.Not one of them mentioned opportunities they did not have in Europe because of over regulation.
Three mentioned the excessive regulations here limit their ability to make a living but they like the life here better so they struggle with the lack of opportunity willingly.

Not a big survey but sometimes real life does not reflect conventional wisdom.
All of them thought US partisan politics is an embarrassment to our country.Two noted that US conservatives seem immersed in a endless stream of fake info which clouds their ability to use their good sense..
They sincerely doubt that Obama is a socialist commie Nazi Muslim who is trying to destroy the US and get everyone on welfare.....
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 1363

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Feuser.

As I'm sure you are aware, we are (to take just a single problem) not self sufficient in power supply, and have to rely on others to keep our lights burning.

We have vast resources of coal, but the environmental lobby would veto the building of any new coal fired power stations. We have nuclear power stations which supply 20% of our current needs, but which are rapidly approaching close down. (End of their lifespan.) It has been obvious for years that new nuclear stations would be needed (France has loads of them, and we receive electricity from them) but, again, the building of new ones has always been vetoed on environmental grounds. (The goverment has finally relented and realised that we need new ones.)

In short, wer face a serious shortfall in power generation (essential to business) and what is our government doing? Building masses of extremely expensive WINDMILLS, for which all power users pay a massive surcharge on their bills. The government insists that they, and other clean sources, will supply 30% of our power needs in the future, yet all sensible studies have shown that this is folly, and unrealistic.

As regards over regulation and employment laws. Suffice to say my mother ran a successful small business employing a small workforce, for many years. (1958 to 1973.) Under current employnent laws (hiring and firing of staff problem in particular, not to mention maternity rights) it would not be viable.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3441

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frances nukes have brought them energy independence.They have no energy resources to speak of.
They are of a simple GE design mostly identical., operate at modest cost and are used to run the trains as well.
Smart EPA helped make this happen.Unions didn't spoil it as they often do in France.
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 1363

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry I didn't answer your reply original reply Keycocker, but had a minor domestic crisis. ( Frying pan on fire and been getting an ear full! I said I was going senile from mad seaweed disease, but it didn't go down too well.) (Anyway, it's more likely the giant turds we used to surf among before our Victorian sewerage system was replaced. That's one thing we can thank E.U. directives for!)

I wonder if the Brits on Maui are surfers/windsurfers who are in 'the mecca' for that reason. If so, I doubt our social and economic woes were foremost on their minds.

Entirely agree that modern nuclear power stations are the real answer. After all, they are now in use all over the world, so there is no longer any safe nuclear free place. I think our government is in energy policy disarray, and is only just waking to the reality. The energy secretary was very green and anti nuclear, but has now had to change his tune.
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