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Has America abandoned capitalism?
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 3952

PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

keycocker wrote:
The Founding Fathers embraced the French Revolution and vice versa. Statue of Liberty was a gift in honor of that fact.


Not really. We used the French to harass the British and they were our ally, but when the executions and mutilations started, Washington rejected the French. By the end of the revolution, Washington was being accused of supporting Britain and the former french monarchy. He didn't like the barbaric imprisonment of Thomas Paine or other American allies by the french rable.

OWS has the seeds of revolution. All we need now is hunger....and with obama, that is a distinct possibility in a few years.

ps. The statue of liberty was given to us over a hundred years later 1886....IN COMMEMERATION OF THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION, NOT THE FRENCH REVOLUTION.
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3472
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

2004 all over again.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/150554/Obama-Romney-Tied-Nationally-Swing-States.aspx
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capetonian



Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 893
Location: Oahu

PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

boggsman1 wrote:
Im not missing anything Mr. Bard. He is woefully unprepared to deal with Washington, thats why he wont win the nomination.


I'm not sure why people that aren't GOP supporters and won't be involved in choosing the GOP nominee are expending so much time on the subject.

And if Cain is our next president I hope you will respect his office just as I respect Obama's office even though I didn't vote for him.
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3472
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

capetonian wrote:
boggsman1 wrote:
Im not missing anything Mr. Bard. He is woefully unprepared to deal with Washington, thats why he wont win the nomination.


I'm not sure why people that aren't GOP supporters and won't be involved in choosing the GOP nominee are expending so much time on the subject.

And if Cain is our next president I hope you will respect his office just as I respect Obama's office even though I didn't vote for him.

Pretty simple. There is a very very good chance that the GOP nominee will be the next president...and as a resident 1%er of this great land, and being 45 in my prime earning years, I have a BIG interest in the policies , and objectives of all serious contenders. If Hermy wins I will support him, something that cant be said for most Repubs who have been against Obama from the day he was born in Kenya Laughing
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 4960

PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a clue as to why there is a OSW movement. Today's news is that PG &E and Wells Fargo were among those corporations that paid no federal taxes over the past three years. Citizens for Tax Justice identified 280 corporations that received over $200 billion in tax subsidies. Looks like corporate farmers are hijacking the agricultural bill, yet again, to subsidize commodity crops. You know the deal, subsidize production in some areas, and subsidize holding land fallow in other areas.

It also appears that the OSW movement has begun an effort to get consumers to take their funds out of large banks in favor of community banks and coops. Now if they would just put their outrage behind a constitutional amendment to establish that corporations are not citizens, and cannot contribute as corporations to political campaigns, they might be onto something.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 3952

PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be for that mac, as long as unions got the same treatment. Especially govt unions.
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capetonian



Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 893
Location: Oahu

PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevenbard wrote:
I'd be for that mac, as long as unions got the same treatment. Especially govt unions.


Ditto
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 3952

PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you realize that the mayor of Oakland let the city employees off for the day to join the OWS riots at the harbor, then had to call the police in to stop them from burning the harbor?


SF Chronicle OAKLAND -- Oakland developer Phil Tagami is used to working behind the scenes to broker some of the biggest deals in town. Late Wednesday, he was using different persuasive skills - holding a loaded shotgun to scare away rioters trying to get into a downtown building.

"We had people who attempted to break into our building," the landmark Rotunda Building on Frank Ogawa Plaza outside City Hall, Tagami said Thursday. He grabbed a shotgun that he usually keeps at home, went down to the ground floor and "discouraged them," he said.

"I was standing there and they saw me there, and I lifted it - I didn't point it - I just held it in my hands," Tagami said. "And I just racked it, and they ran."

Although they didn't get inside the building - Tagami, 46, oversaw its $50 million renovation and has an office there - vandals did scrawl graffiti on the outside walls during the post-midnight riot that broke out after Occupy Oakland's daylong general strike.

The Rotunda Building was far from the only target. Graffiti was spray-painted on many buildings along Broadway from 14th to 16th streets. Masked vandals shattered windows, started fires and threw objects at police, including lit flares and powerful M-1000 firecrackers.

Officers responded by firing tear gas and flash-bang grenades and arresting 103 people, including those from as far away as Michigan and New York. Five civilians and three police officers were hurt.

Crews were boarding up broken windows at the Tully's Coffee shop just steps from Occupy Oakland's camp at Frank Ogawa Plaza outside City Hall. Graffiti was sprayed on the Rite Aid and Walgreens drugstores across from each other at 14th and Broadway. The city estimated it would cost up to $25,000 to replace broken windows at city buildings.

City Administrator Deanna Santana apologized to business owners for the "chaotic events" that enveloped the city. Mayor Jean Quan called the rioters "a small and isolated group."

"It shouldn't mar the overall impact of the demonstration and the fact that people in the 99 percent movement demonstrated peacefully and, for the most part, were productive and very peaceful," Quan said.

Tagami disagreed, calling the Occupy Oakland encampment "basically concealment and cover for anarchists who are doing this to our city."

"We're very concerned that a group of people can be allowed to do this type of destruction to our town and to our image without any repercussions," Tagami said. "They need to be held accountable." He rejected assertions that the anarchists were a small minority, saying, "No, you can't have it both ways."
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capetonian



Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 893
Location: Oahu

PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The longer the anarchists are allowed to be part of these movements the more credibility they lose.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5687

PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is always the possibility that the small violent side of the OWS movement is being fomented by folks with an interest in discrediting the movement. Every cause has its fringe elements, and it's these factions that can be whipped up to institute unrest and violence. I think that it's quite possible that the right could be behind the negative side of things stirring the pot, because for the most part, the majority of the OWS movement in Oakland that was protesting in another area of the city that day did so in a very controlled and peaceable way.

Now, I could be completely wrong about the possibility of the right's involvement. However, given the negative comments from those on the right here on this forum that go out of their way to adamantly condemn the OWS movement and the folks in it, it's quite plausible that some nefarious folks with a big ax to grind could be covertly involved to promote untoward and violent behavior. It's not a big stretch, and it's easily within the realm of those trying to get what they want, especially since many are not beyond bold lies and misconceptions to reach and actualize their goals.
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