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Has America abandoned capitalism?
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capetonian



Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 895
Location: Oahu

PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 3:33 pm    Post subject: Has America abandoned capitalism? Reply with quote

Even Business Week is talking about Marx:
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/marx-to-market-09142011.html

Wall Street has some of the biggest socialists. Bailing out the bondholders was socialism. 3 years later I am still mad about it.

http://hussmanfunds.com/wmc/wmc111010.htm

"We definitely share the same moral outrage at what happened," says Daniel Mitchell, a senior fellow at the Cato Institute. "Even if the banks paid the money back, they got breathing room for their own bad financial decisions, courtesy of the taxpayer."

Bank shareholders, bondholders and executives should have been allowed to take their losses in bank reorganizations that saved the good assets in the system, say many bank reform critics on the right. Instead, "the risks were socialized and the gains were privatized," says Warren. "It's not so much that people are upset around the top 1% getting rich. I think what angers people is the notion of crony capitalism. The hard-earned money of taxpayers was used to make a few people richer."
http://money.msn.com/mutual-fund/capitalists-should-fight-wall-street-too-wsj.aspx?page=0

Personally I have faith in capitalism to heal itself, but I fear what we have to go through to get there.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 3961

PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marx was right about a lot of things except the outcome.

From my perspective set up 2 graphs. x=society wealth (gdp) y=regulation. 0 regulation might = 0 gdp because there would be anarchy. 100% regulation might also = 0 gdp (private wealth) because of over regulation. You'd want to find the top of the curve in order to find optimal regulation. (pollution obviously costs gdp)

You could set up the same scenario for tax rates.

What obama and so many in congress miss, is the same thing marx missed. The human spirit, and our amazing ability to adapt.

When obama was elected, millions of guys like me, essentially shut down. His rhetoric and the prior administrations policies have left us in shock. Vilifying the top 1% has only made the matter worse. Not being able to quantify the risk is unacceptable.

Funny though, when obama was elected, a bunch of obama supporters like Al Gore set up the Chicago Climate Exchange. Solyndra, Fiskar and the CCE were off to the races. That risk became quantifiable in Nov '08.

My point is, that when the govt controls everything, you'll still end up with the top 1%. They will be the oligarchs and bureaucrats. They will stack the odds in their favor.

With reasonable govt regulation and taxation, you'll have the 1%, except the bar will just be a lot higher and easier to reach. This is why we have been the most powerful nation in history.

Free market capitalism has proven to be the best system, over and over again.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 3961

PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ps, I would love to be able to compete with GE or Exxon. The easiest way to level the playing field would be to reduce regulations for the small employer. There would be a boom bigger than the 80's if we did that. Any company with sales below $10 million would benefit.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 3961

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As Winston Churchill warned, "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."

My hero
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 1309

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad you appreciate Churchill. We need someone of his stature now!

Our teaching establishment went through a phase of non competitive equality of achievement, as distinct from equality of opportunity, to try and eliminate any sense of failure in pupils. Reality struck home when the pupils left school to enter the real world.

No doubt the idealists meant well, but, as Winnie said, 'Perfect solutions to our difficulties are not to be looked for in an imperfect world.'
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 3961

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Churchill, Thatcher, Reagan, Kennedy are the greatest world leaders of the 20th century in my book.

Churchill was a leader that the world could use today!
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jpbassking



Joined: 19 May 1998
Posts: 2354
Location: Leo

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like any other "ism" it has the potential of going too far if left unchecked. Too much the other direction would not be good either. The answer lies somewhere in the middle.

Unfortunately greed is far too attractive to some who are not content with a home and a car but need several of each living beyond the capacity of what anyone really needs to have a quality life.

_________________
{JP:}====****
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5002

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bard likes the part where Reagan authorized selling guns to the Contras in defiance of law. Lying and breaking laws particularly appeals to him, as long as it is done by a "conservative" (really, just a fascist).
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 3961

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac wrote:
Bard likes the part where Reagan authorized selling guns to the Contras in defiance of law. Lying and breaking laws particularly appeals to him, as long as it is done by a "conservative" (really, just a fascist).


Mac, you might want to read the book "Demonic" by Ann Coulter. It explains many of the popular myths you regurgitate. Probably would have you in tears.

Usually don't facists stay in power by force? Usually don't they control the media and other branches of govt?
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2587

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevenbard wrote:
...read the book "Demonic" by Ann Coulter...

Holy sh!t!

Now there's a credible, fair and balanced, neutral, unbiased, believable source if ever there was one. Shocked

Ol' boney-ass Ann herself, spouting some "truth" or another.
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