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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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 Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| isobars wrote: | | No one orders me to change my mind; that's done by persuasion and evidence, not force. |
And guess what? I examined the steamer and drysuit temp color charts even more closely, on a Mac via Firefox, a Mac via Safari (they display most websites very differently), a Windows PC, and a cell phone, to see whether your interpretation -- that the color bands indicate only a Yes or No regarding basic suitability, with no regard to degree of suitability -- and I now think you're right on that minute point (which even an ION dealer couldn't clarify). The yellow segment in the multicolored circle above the MILD word, when dragged down over its white lettering in their Steamer chart, obscures the word MILD because of lack of contrast, not deliberately enhanced brightness, AKA highlighting. The same apparently goes for the yellowish-green color dragged down over COOL on the Fuse chart. Had any of you made that clearer, rather than just yelling about the issue, obscuring it in pages of underwear nonsense, threatening to post a rant about it, declaring me insane, and in one case calling me a liar, I'd have spotted that much sooner.
Congratulations. You've screamed that Mikey made an error, and I actually proved it. However, that technicality doesn't alter any other point of opinion or fact I've posted in this thread, all of which are far more relevant and important than advertising claims in choosing winter sailing gear.
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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| westender wrote: | 1. I'm not understanding if that suit is suitable for the coldest temps without wearing extra insulation as a 4/3 would seem inadequate? ...
2. in their literature they say you have to try it before you judge but I didn't see anything about a money back guarantee?? |
1. That's where this whole brouhaha started: OF COURSE NOT! 
But that's in the website's fine print, which I had to hunt for and then enlarge to even read. In fact the website insists on it, which is why I emphasized that so strongly. At about a thousand dollars, it's still basically a 4/3 drysuit. The difference is that it's oversized ... the same way I've bought six to eight 5/5mm Bare, Pryde, and Promotion since my first one in the mid '80s ... so we can (and must, in severe conditions) wear fleece under it just as I've advocated since the days of AOL's windsurfing forum. The primary difference its that Ion wants twice the money for the concept.
2. Neither did I. All the suits I mentioned and many more offered that guarantee, or at least a suit swap if unhappy, but I don't see it here and the closest Ion dealerI can find -- the one I phoned -- is a continent away in another nation.
My one remaining question is whether the Ion suit uses some truly unique, super-tough, ripstop, highly cut-resistant neoprene. I cut my neo suits all the time with fins, fingernails, brush, rig parts, rocks, my imagination ... whatever ... and any cut letting in any significant water into any loose suit would quickly become life-threatening even in moderate water temps, most notably in rough water, surf, or any swimming situation. Roger Jackson cut his leg on his fin through his Goretex Kokatat without so much as a mark on the suit, and I've never cut my Kokatats in 10 partial seasons of clumsy sailing. Much depends on HOW loosely a bag suit fits, and I've always chosen that degree in my oversized neo suits by trying on a few and choosing the degree of looseness. By mail, that has meant ordering a few suits (ditto harnesses) and returning the rejects.
I’ve owned one Helley Hanson non-Goretex bag drysuit, two Goretex Kokatat bags (bought one, wore it out in a few years, received a free warranty replacement), and at least half a dozen deliberately baggy neoprene drysuits. For my money, safety, versatility, flexibility, weight, and hands-down supreme comfort superiority, my Kokatats have been clear winners. Some all-winter Great Lakes hardcores here have agreed … without ever interpreting a color chart.
YMMV.
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swchandler
Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10588
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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Oh my goodness, an apology of sorts in isobars 18:31 post, if you don't consider the caveat at the end.
Last edited by swchandler on Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17747
Location: Berkeley, California
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Consensus is that Mike is incapable of seeing himself as others see him, or actually acting nice. Very sad.
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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| swchandler wrote: | | if you don't consider the caveat at the end. |
That caveat is there for the same reason I saw your post: I consider this whole thread a safety issue rather than a pissing contest.
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windoggi
Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 2743
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you, Officer Friendly!
_________________
/w\ |
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trudyl
Joined: 30 Jul 2008
Posts: 237
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Time to test out all that winter gear, blowing today, Saturday and Sunday.
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trudyl
Joined: 30 Jul 2008
Posts: 237
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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2-12-2012 Pictures of Kevin at Rooster Rock, five sailors out, windy thur Tuesday
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trudyl
Joined: 30 Jul 2008
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