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GURGLETROUSERS
Joined: 30 Dec 2009 Posts: 2643
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Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:50 am Post subject: |
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Quote; ' Liberals may see multi-culturalism as a way to accept and engage others. This only works if those that you are inviting have the same abilities.'
Precisely Coboard. It takes two to tango! (At present we seem to be failing in our well intended approach.)
The question is, (and Macs explanation is very relevant), HOW do we make that possible? |
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feuser
Joined: 29 Oct 2002 Posts: 1508
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keycocker
Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 3598
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Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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After a while they have assimilated in many cases, while altering our customs. Until that happens it can seem pretty multi to many observers.
If you live in New York you may be forgiven for thinking that isn't very true.
I grew up in an Italian neighborhood ...
My girl friend lived in a Ukrainian neighborhood and then moved into a Jewish neighborhood. All of this was in a nominally white bread midwest city.
Now those are both Latino areas.
The problem I see is that too many Latinos are coming at one time and melting in a bit too much of their culture. |
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windoggi
Joined: 22 Feb 2002 Posts: 2743
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Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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keycocker wrote: |
The problem I see is that too many Latinos are coming at one time and melting in a bit too much of their culture. |
Take out "Latinos" and fill in that historic blank with whatever group or ethnicity you want. Bigotry has long shelf life. _________________ /w\ |
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GURGLETROUSERS
Joined: 30 Dec 2009 Posts: 2643
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Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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I'm sorry Windoggie but you will need to explain your bigotry point!
Are you seriously suggesting that if a hardline Islamic community attempts to override the democratically passed laws of our Christian country by illegally imposing Sharia Law, and enforcing punishment on ALL who attempt to enter 'their' territory, (as just recently happened in London), that we are bigots for chastising them, and banning any such attempt to usurp the laws or our land?
Do you really believe their only motive was to integrate? |
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swchandler
Joined: 08 Nov 1993 Posts: 10588
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Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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GT, let's agree that your country isn't really subject to what "local" immigrant groups want the government and our culture to be. But, I would hope that your leaders know that, and they can ultimately draw the line. Immigrants need to fit into the overall picture, or else, they become invaders. |
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coboardhead
Joined: 26 Oct 2009 Posts: 4303
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Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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Of course, we all desire integration of immigrants into the popular "culture", but I think GT is asking a fair question. What if fitting in is far from the goal? What if conquering is? Remember, the Native Americans had US over for Thanksgiving dinner! |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999 Posts: 20935
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Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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I guess people whose only source of news is local liberal rags don't know this, but on a large scale Muslims in Europe adamantly, actively REFUSE to integrate ... culturally, socially, legally, legislatively, "religiously", "behaviorly", geographically, fiscally ... what else is there? Through the eyes of the liberal media, they see the Muslims who DO behave like modern human beings, but they are unwilling to look past that at the cave men who still want to kill their daughters because they got raped, live in exclusive (not wealthy; exclusive) enclaves away from society at large, use their own banking systems, burn hundreds of cars in Paris streets because that's what they do when they don't get their way, hide their identities under burkas in public like libtards hide their identities under screen names online, put mosques at victory sites just like coyotes piss on trees ... all the hard core third world crap stuff so many Muslims cling to.
Last edited by isobars on Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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feuser
Joined: 29 Oct 2002 Posts: 1508
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Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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Again, the reality on the ground doesn't quite mesh with the propaganda.
The "ground zero mosque", of course was neither a mosque nor at ground zero. There's a at least one sex shop and a halal food stand located between the WTC site and what is now and the Park51 community center several blocks away. The misnomer is a deliberate fabrication by people who wanted to gain political capital from fanning the flames one year, and then conveniently forgetting it in the next (the center opened without fanfare or protest a few weeks ago).
The affair does illuminate however, how far away from reality on the ground both our sensationalist news and the politics play out.
Suggesting that muslim immigrants generally represent some sort of 5th column with the intent to overthrow and conquer the west is, of course, preposterous. People come to the west because they see opportunity for work and career, a better life and personal freedoms. When these high expectations clash with frustrating and often hostile realities, it is not entirely surprising that newcomers are stepping back to find familiarity and comfort in their ethnic and cultural niches and customs.
Places like Park51 serve a vital role here, in that they are presenting a familiar cultural have as part of the American experience. By inviting immigrants to participate in public life, we avoid driving large groups of especially young people into an underground culture, where real problems can start to develop. _________________ florian - ny22
http://www.windsurfing.kasail.com/ |
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GURGLETROUSERS
Joined: 30 Dec 2009 Posts: 2643
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Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:12 am Post subject: |
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Feuser, if I may respond to your last post. (I'll try to be brief because I've been up all night with a feverish temperature, and my mind is whirling.)
Ground Zero. Not living in America I only know what I read (3 papers) or hear (B.B.C. and Sky news) through the media. If they have misrepresented the truth I accept that you know better, and it isn't really an issue.
Your claim that it is preposterous that muslim immigrants in general are trying to overthrow the West is a distortion of what any of us have said. An Islamic hard line 5 th column most certainly DOES exist, especially here in Britain. (Londons nick-name across Europe is Londistan, a reference to its link with Islamic fundamentalist in Pakistan.
The security forces are constantly foiling and arresting 5 th column cells, the latest only weeks ago. (They were close to carrying out a terrorist act.) You suggested that given participation in society, integration would automatically follow. I think you are wrong.
The striking thing about these Islamic terrorist cells is that the bulk of those involved are often young (born and brought up here) university graduates with families. On the face of it, they are the last people neighbours would have suspected. 5 th column is EXACTLY the phrase which fits! (The whole campaign is obviously being orchestrated, probably from Pakistan.)
Nobody disputes that the majority of muslims are reasonable people, though their reluctance to integrate is an issue, but we are in no doubt that Europe is facing a growing problem with extreme Islamic fundamentalists. Our government , and others, now recognises that fact. |
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