A simple parable for the Wisconsin news

[mat-ty]

It was an awesome winter for us skiers, Stowe got two feet last night and more coming this weekend , and I love spring skiing, girls in bikinis, BBQ , music rockin, life is good!

[isobars]

[swchandler]

mrgybe, what do you think about isobars' comments in response to your post?

I have to ask, do conservatives tend to think alike about this?

[mrgybe]

I had not heard Chief Counsel's comments previously, and I don't know the context, so I really can't respond.........and I voice my own opinions, not those of others, or those I apparently receive via "talking points".

It's a widely held view that, generally, the public education system in this country is not working well. If we accept that, then it is only logical to look for root causes.......including looking at those who have controlled and shaped that system for many years.......that's not "blaming" that's analyzing the problem. Human nature is the same the world over, and spans all age groups.......the vast majority of people will only excel if there is an incentive to do so.........and, on the flip side, they will not fear failure if there is little or no consequence. In the public school teaching profession, there appears to be little difference in the treatment of those who excel and those whose performance is mediocre or poor. The consistent resistance to meaningful performance measurements........a vital tool in any successful enterprise.......suggests to me that the teacher's are content with that situation. The teachers unions have exercised their considerable power to ensure the status quo. In my view that is not acceptable and am not at all uncomfortable with their power being curtailed to enable meaningful change.

Similar comments could equally apply to other "public service" unions.

[keycocker]

"n the public school teaching profession, there appears to be little difference in the treatment of those who excel and those whose performance is mediocre or poor. The consistent resistance to meaningful performance measurements........a vital tool in any successful enterprise.......suggests to me that the teacher's are content with that situation. "
That would surely be a tragedy, esp the part about teachers not liking meaningful performance measurements.
Teachers spend every day mapping out meaningful performance measurements. It is their main job after classroom instruction. What makes you believe to the contrary?
If that is dead wrong then the inference that teachers are happy with the situation is wrong also.A few moments spent with a group of teachers and you might change your mind about that. In the real world almost all teachers want better schools, better testing...
If any poster knows of even a partial answer to these problems you can change at least one school right now.
Sit at my desk and tell me what to change and I will try to do it before classes in the morning.
I can add some tough questions to the math test. That will lower all the grades,but will the kids know more after? I can go the other way and raise all scores, but that wouldn't improve their education either.
Starting to get an idea of how difficult it is to actually improve testing if you had to do it? No pol has a clue.

[isobars]

[coboardhead]

My first reaction is to agree almost completely with what mrgybe wrote. However, I am not sure how accurate the assessment is of the "failure" of the public school system.

My friends and relatives that teach complain constantly (teachers whine more than any profession I have ever been around) that many of the students come to school inadequately prepared to learn. Some are hungry, some have language difficulties, some are zombied out on prescription drugs, some have not slept enough. Teachers become day care workers.

I believe, and so do all of the teachers I know, that the system is fundamentally broken. Are unions at fault? Partially, since they protect teachers who do not do their jobs. The bigger problem with unions, IMO, is that they provide a political tool to resist change, as mrgybe pointed out.

Governing in this country has become a constant battle between the right and left. Unions will take a firm position to protect their turf. It is up to the politicians to take the heat and force the unions to negotiate. It is also up to the same politicians to address the social issues that make teaching today such a difficult task and allow the teachers to do their jobs.

Properly structured, a teachers union could be instrumental in reforming the public education system. Destroying or dismantling the unions will only cause dissatisfaction and hard feelings.

[boggsman1]

[isobars]

I've not seen even one pol or professional pundit advocate destruction or dismantlement of the NEA. It's about constraining public employee unions from dictating their own compensation packages by 1) using bully tactics such as walkouts, 2) the use of mandatory union dues to support the hand that feeds them (98% of NEA political contributions go to the Democrat party), 3) bringing public employees' compensation and contributions back into the realm of comparable private sector employees. All most governors are asking is that their union teachers pay a MUCH smaller fraction of their own health and pension fund costs than non-union teachers pay, receive more rational pensions, do their jobs or make room for teachers who will, and no longer be forced to funnel dues into a party not of their own choosing. Is that too much for a state to ask when faced with de facto bankruptcy?

Given that Pres Carter permanently ended collective bargaining for all federal employees for those reasons, why should the any federal administration -- as Obama threatened and then tried to do -- strongly support the NEA over the states trying to rein it in? If it's good enough for the feds, why can't states push for the same status without the president, as Obama promised to do, "put on comfortable shoes and walk the picket lines with the unions as President of the United States"? Should union political contributions be allowed to buy THAT much bully pulpit bias and direct support? Is this the United States of Chicago?

[mrgybe]