myiW Current Conditions and Forecasts Community Forums Windsurfing Videos Buy and Sell Services
 
Hi guest · myAccount · Log in
 SearchSearch   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   RegisterRegister 
A simple parable for the Wisconsin news
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, ... 27, 28, 29  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    iWindsurf Community Forum Index -> Politics, Off-Topic, Opinions
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5475

PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It never ceases to amaze me how quickly a conservative can blame the depressed construction market not on the general meltdown of the housing market caused by a speculative bubble, but on illegal immigrants. After millions went back to Mexico and South America.

It's easier to hate than to think or pay attention.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 1970
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevenbard wrote:
All the drooling window shoppers want someone else to make cookies for them, rather than start their own bakery. They are then whipped into a frenzy by a local college proffesor who leads them to believe that they deserve the fruits of someone elses creativity.


Exactly whom are you describing? I hardly think that an entitlement mentality applies to most college students. Certainly not with the college students I know. Nor among those undergrads I knew at Pepperdine, where a meaningful percentage took no financial aid.

Respectfully, you seem to mistake teaching that the less need more and that the game is rigged with actually breeding a community of beggars and leaches holding Bachelors degrees.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 1970
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a lawyer in the construction industry I can confirm that some out of work construction workers must blame the supervisors who hire undocumented workers. Hiring undocumented workers allows for artificial bidding that results in legit companies having either to cut their margins or loose contracts. Even worse is the fate of these undocumented workers who have no right to claim workers comp for the many injuries that are common on jobsites. These unscrupulous employers knowingly put those workers risk because most skilled illegal workers will continue to work even when hurt because they know they will loose the job.

We can't blame the workers for wanting to work. We should blamethose who hire them to do construction work.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 2034

PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, in my area, undocumented construction workers are pretty much non-existent with the contractors that I work with. However, documented migrant workers are often employed to perform manual labor tasks that no one else will for the wages paid.

This is not so much the case with, for example, the local bakery that got in trouble for using undocumented workers. Folks I know in agriculture admit that checking documents was not very common in this area until they started cracking down on it a couple years ago.

My point is that many of our goods and services are being provided using labor performed by low wage migrant workers (legal or not); and we enjoy the reduced costs of the services, or the increased profits to our businesses.

This is off topic from Mac's post. However, as a society it is sometimes worthwhile to recognize that the goods and services we consume may be brought to us by those that never will share in consuming any of those cookies.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 2827

PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Keycocker, Dan and Coboardhead......illegals are being taken advantage of by unscrupulous employers (and, indirectly, by most of us)....those employers should be pursued by the authorities. But the illegals have also take some responsibility.......were it not for their illegal status they would not be so vulnerable.......and they are well aware that they should be paying taxes etc.

Of course illegal workers had little to do with the depressed construction market..........that's why I didn't suggest anything of the sort. As I said, we need serious solutions from serious people.......not silly accusations from those only interested in raising the temperature.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4313

PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan, if they were studying math, science, medicine, nursing, physics, or engineering, instead of The softer social subjects, they'd eventually find work.

Yeah harsh, but the true evil in all this is "free trade", which is forcing the few people who work hard, to compete for less and less money.

It wouldn't hurt to shut our borders for a while.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5475

PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A more reasoned line of analysis about illegals shows up. That's encouraging. Obama has actually done more to enforce immigration laws than any of the other 2 recent Presidents, and is criticized by the left for his efforts. Remember the significant role that Reagan and agriculture (read Republicans) had in the last round of immigration "reform", big agriculture didn't really want to have to pay minimum (read into that "American worker") wages, and carved out exceptions that every business has used if they can.

No doubt reform is needed. When the Republicans lead with Tancredo and the nativists in Arizona, its tantamount to letting the Taliban define the shape of the negotiating table. (To mix only a few metaphors.)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3703
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Repubs and Chamber do NOT want to vilify their servants. And, the Repubs and the Mortgage Bankers Association do NOT want to get rid of Fan/Fred. dirty little secrets
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 2827

PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This almost brings us full circle to Wisconsin. In my opinion, the education system in this country frequently does not serve the student population well. Droves of kids leave high school or college with limited marketable skills. Sometimes, particularly in depressed areas, that can be the fault of funding. However, in many areas, funding is not the issue in my view.......attitude is. For years there has been an underlying theme in schools that downplays failure........a harsh awakening awaits those kids who leave the education system with their self esteem in far better shape than their academic credentials. Even worse, most teachers have never left school, and we have a generation or two who were taught that failure is not really bad. Is it any wonder that they resist moves to loosen almost guaranteed employment and introduce meaningful performance measures?

Teachers unions stranglehold on the education system needs reform in my opinion, and if the moves in Wisconsin are a start, I'm in favor. We need to teach our kids that it is a tough, competitive world out there, and provide them the skills they need to compete. If those charged with providing that education reside in a bubble that does not present the challenges that most of their students will face, and just continue to teach the things they were taught, it will be difficult for even the most capable teacher to provide that education.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3703
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im going to move the focus off the teacher unions as my frineds on the right sit, and onto the parents of our children. In my opinion, the parents hold the keys to a childs happiness, and confidence in life. Spending quality time with kids after school, and in the evening is critical, but we are a Blackberry society , and parents are too busy. My kids are in Waldorf schools, and its amazing the kids these schools churn out. No Tv, no computer til 6th grade, no crappy food, no stress. The confidence and self reliance this teaches is incredible, and this is repeatable on any economic level. Mr. G. as a man who hails from Europe, Im sure you know the value of a Waldorf education.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    iWindsurf Community Forum Index -> Politics, Off-Topic, Opinions All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, ... 27, 28, 29  Next
Page 2 of 29

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

myiW | Weather | Community | Membership | Support | Log in
like us on facebook
© Copyright 1999-2007 WeatherFlow, Inc Contact Us Ad Marketplace

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group