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Wind on the Nile
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5003

PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not too long ago the righties on the forum lambasted Obama for his taking Netanyahu to task for his complete resistance to any peace effort, and said, as had previous presidents, that the 1967 borders should be the starting point for negotiations. He was attacked by all of the righties here, as naive (mrgybe's favorite aspersion), stupid, or a traitor. Some of the more moderate members even wondered if appeasement might be involved.

For those of you who like your analysis complete with an editor and fact checker, you might be interested in the June 6 New Yorker's article: http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/2011/06/06/110606taco_talk_hertzberg I know, it is impossible for the righties to read anything that comes out of New York, wasn't sent to them by an approved conservative web site, and involves an organization like the New Yorker that is part of the liberal conspiracy. In fact, for some reading an article rather than an attack blog might be a challenge.

I was chided for making this a matter of more of the same orchestrated right wing attack politics--but then how do you explain Netanyahu's invitation to speak before Congress?

Of course one of the backdrops for all of this is the application of the Palistineans for recognition by the United Nations, bypassing the peace process and putting the United States in the difficult position of maybe having to veto a UN resolution. Of course one of the purposes of Obama's trip to Europe (attacked by the right as an expensive boondoggle) was to prevent that from happening. And last night's news, little noticed by the pit bulls of the right here, was that seems to have been quietly put to rest.

I know that these guys want to return to the days where "Yihaw" rather than diplomacy or competence (who got Bin Laden?) was the hallmark of American foreign policy, but really.

As for me scouring the web for ways to hate on Republicans--I get most of my material in hard copy. And I rue the modern days when the religious right has stripped what was onece the Grand Old Party--of all who truly value personal liberty in the unending quest to control the reproductive rights of every woman, and to make sure that we are ashamed of all sexual activities that aren't blessed by our local pastor. But I will not hide my scorn for those who apoligize for the Tea party, despite their many forms of bigotry.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13866

PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Presuming someone is whining about Israel firing on advancing hordes, how is defending your borders an "attack"?
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coyotewindsurf



Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 1268
Location: SF Bay

PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac wrote:
I rue the modern days when the religious right has stripped what was onece the Grand Old Party--of all who truly value personal liberty in the unending quest to control the reproductive rights of every woman, and to make sure that we are ashamed of all sexual activities that aren't blessed by our local pastor. But I will not hide my scorn for those who apoligize for the Tea party, despite their many forms of bigotry.


Hear, hear!

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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 1309

PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With regard to freedom to practise 'ALL sexual activities that aren't blessed by our local pastor.' Surely you can't mean that! Two obvious points;

1) Children, and their protection from sexual exploitation by adults.

2) Incest, again usually foisted on children by adult family members.

Both are taboo in civilized societies, as used to be abortion on demand as a lifestyle choice. How long before those barriers are breached?

With regard to Israel, they have learned the hard way that the meek DO NOT inheret the earth! Since when has any dominant world power followed that path?
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 2553

PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hear, hear!
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5698

PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know about you folks, but the kettle is on the fire in North Africa and the Middle East, and the heat is turning up. You never know when things will get out of hand and violently explode.

In so far as Israel and the Palestinians situation, these folks need resolve their problems sooner rather than later. There are the "enemies" within your borders, and those outside. In dealing with your enemies, it's my view that dealing with the former would go a long way in mitigating your problems with the latter. Hopefully, Israel isn't blind to that.

Literally and figuratively, we can't afford any further military involvement in that part of the world. That's another thing that the Israelis need to seriously ponder.


Last edited by swchandler on Sun Jun 05, 2011 4:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5003

PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GT--You know that I agree with you on protecting children. You probably also suspect that I was referring to the unending furor over according gay people equal rights.

On Israel, I also agree at the level of generalities. Talk softly, carry a big stick, and be confident enough in your stick to be willing to sit down and talk. Natanyahu is none of those things. There is, and was, a larger context, and I would again submit that Obama's success in Europe in heading off an effort to recognize a Palistinean state (as well as in making sure there was a coalition behind actions in Libya that I do not agree with) are more profoundly competent than anything that George Bush, John Bolton, or Dick Cheney ever accomplished.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5003

PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems time to return to this topic, with the death of Gadaffi (however you want to spell his name) and the imminent departure of US troops from Iraq. How well I remember mrgybe's complaint that Obama didn't know what he was doing, and he was either doing it to fast or too slow. Whatever he heard from his right wing sources. We shouldn't hold mrgybe's feet too close the fire, or gloat that he was so clearly wrong, after all Bill Maher said that Mitt Romney has had 5 different positions on Libya.

No, the reason for revival is to punch a hole in the shibboleth than Obama can't lead, and sing his praises for cost-effectiveness. Obama kept US boots off the ground, but used US technology to identify targets in assisting the revolution. The cost? About $1 billion. The cost to oust Saddam? About $1 trillion, not counting the cost of health care for wounded soldiers for the next 30 years. Now I really don't completely agree with either war effort; displacing leaders of sovereign countries that have not attacked another country outside of their borders raises profound ethical and tactical questions. But if it is going to be done, I sure do appreciate the cost-effectiveness. It is so not Haliburton.

And for those who say Obama can't lead? To me you all seem like the coyote, chasing the road runner. Lots of heat and banging your own heads against rocks, but no dinner for you.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 3961

PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you call murder with remote drones leadership, it is not. He just finished reading "The Prince" by Machiavelli. I'm sure there will be more killing to come. If Bush had done all this, your panties would have been in a wad.

He will continue sending drones out as long as it works. It has helped his poll numbers. Meanwhile we pull out of Iraq without any reparations or oil. I thought Bush went in for the oil.

We lost a lot of Americas best over there, for what? Only to let the Shiite minority hook up with Irans shiite majority? What kind of leadership is this? Bush and Obama are both to blame, but it's obama's fault if this fails now.
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windoggie



Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 2369

PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevenbard wrote:
If you call murder with remote drones leadership, it is not. He just finished reading "The Prince" by Machiavelli. I'm sure there will be more killing to come. If Bush had done all this, your panties would have been in a wad.

He will continue sending drones out as long as it works. It has helped his poll numbers. Meanwhile we pull out of Iraq without any reparations or oil. I thought Bush went in for the oil.

We lost a lot of Americas best over there, for what? Only to let the Shiite minority hook up with Irans shiite majority? What kind of leadership is this? Bush and Obama are both to blame, but it's obama's fault if this fails now.

You need to join up Rambo. Throw some more meat in the grinder.

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