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Wind on the Nile
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14024

PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GURGLETROUSERS wrote:
I note the over the top tone ... 'ranting' Prime Minister, something he doesn't do.

By the way, I worked with a muslim colleague for over 30 years, and I remain friends with both him and his extended family.


Depends on which dictionary one uses. I meant impassioned, not bombastic.

Has anyone, anywhere, derided all muslims?
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 1328

PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I hope we can agree on that. (Not deriding all Muslims.)

Our multicultural approach has unfortunately opened the door to radical Islamic fundamentalists who target the young and impressionable, and who wish to destroy our society.

Freedom isn't a given, and needs to be fought for. Moderate Muslims have no truck with these radicals, any more than we do.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14024

PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OTOH, Google <what percent of Muslims support Shariah law?>

In general and in the UK, the range of answers is alarming when one multiplies the answer by a billion.
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windoggie



Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 2380

PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Help me with this iso. I'm one of the Plonked, yet you can see my topic. I'm confused.
_________________
/w\
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 1328

PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem Iso is more with the children of Muslim immigrants who struggle to make sense of growing up in a very different culture to their parents beliefs. When faced with apparent hostility it is no surprise that they affirm their adherence to their parents religion. That is why tolerance and understanding is so necessary, and why the radical extremists target them.

I've seen it with my friends two grown up children both of whom are university educated to a high degree. (His daughter is a P.H.D. graduate and has landed a first class research position.) It is they who face the difficult transition from their culture, to integrating fully into Western liberal society. No more so than when it comes to marriage!

To turn it the other way about,an English friends daughter met and fell in love with a Sikh at university, and went to stay with his family abroad. It was obvious that if they married she would be expected to convert to their ways, which she baulked at doing. In their eyes, she was the one who was being unreasonable.

What people claim out of loyalty to their heritage is the biggest problem, and is one where compromise often isn't realistic. I don't set much store to survey claims. We all know how skewed these things can be when people are genuinely agonising over coming to terms with very difficult choices. The default position is to fall back on what you know, especially when facing hostility.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3320

PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

>>>Has anyone, anywhere, derided all muslims?
That would be Geert Wilder who hates Muslims and wrote this speech. It is quite moderate for him.
He, along with some far right Christians, is helping Bin laden.
Simple fact well known to Muslims in the West: Bin Laden can not win against us alone. He needs the help of the Christian Militias, and all the many people who I have seen express hatred against Muslims. Bin Laden needs the leadership of Limbaugh and Beck and many ministers to spread hate in order to recruit in the West.
They are obliging him not because they really hate anyone. They are reading from a prompter for big money.I can imagine how they must feel at times.
What was my opinion today?
Isn't that helping the enemy by spreading discord among ethnic Americans?
"Shut up and read it.Heres your check"


Last edited by keycocker on Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:18 pm; edited 2 times in total
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pointster



Joined: 22 Jul 2010
Posts: 210

PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Re: killing gays in Islamic cities. In Jakarta, the largest city in the largest Islamic nation, gay bashing is very rare.

See: http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/home/being-gay-muslim-and-indonesian/331310
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3320

PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know a gay Muslim. Stories of such abound in the Islamic literature
.The gay Christians I know are very afraid of Evangelistic rednecks -not Muslims. Gays in America have been killed in the past and beaten up a lot. They regard this as an ever present danger in the US, but at least one said he feels safe travelling in the Middle East.
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 1328

PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a point about the Koran which I've just checked up on in discussion with my Muslim friend this morning.

He argues that people can high jack and interpret it in different ways, just as they can the Bible.

He sees no reason why his son or daughter should be prevented from marrying outside of their faith (then trying to convert them) anymore than say a Cathoilic should be prevented from doing so.

Fundamentalists from either religion are the problem, as both Mac and Keycocker point out. I once got into bother by exasperatedly pointing out to an intelligent girl from a Christian fundamentalist background who took everything in the Bible, Old Testament included, as literal truth. I remarked pointedly that she must then believe in incest! (Just one of a thousand logical absurdities to the Noahs Ark story, and Noahs family being the sole survivors from which all of humanity sprang.)

I heatedly argued, at the inevitable fall out, that as an atheist I had every right, and a duty, (by virtue of my job), to enlighten and instruct in exactly the same manner that her parents (Jehovas Witnesses) had to enforce their views on others without being asked!

Those who would wish to bring peace and harmony to the world could do far worse than to remember St. Pauls Corinthians 1 Chapter 13, which, along with Shakespears King Lear, is one of the most moving pieces of English literature the world has ever seen. It ends:

' But now abideth faith, hope, love, these three; and the greatest of them is love.'
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1925

PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gurgletrousers (and others) wrote

Quote:
But now abideth faith, hope, love, these three; and the greatest of them is love.'


Amen, Amin, Ameen
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