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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 2714

PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Daily Telegraph is owned by David and Frederick Barclay.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4228

PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac wrote:
A rupert rag as a balanced view? mrgybe is one of the only righties here who hasn't threatened violence.


Should I publish your pm's to me? Pretty violent sounding.

Gifford voted against Pelosi as leader. The biggest damage done was to a conservative FEDERAL COURT JUDGE, who supported Arizona immigration law, and held the Obama healthcare law to be unconstitutional. He was murdered.

Wrap your arms about that why don't you.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1960

PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This man was obviously sick. Providing any sort of rational thought process to his behavior is purely conjecture.

That said, this incident has provided a stimulus for a national discussion on the potential consequences of hate talk. It is fair to put Ms Palin up as an example of this rhetoric. It is not fair to blame her for these deaths.

I felt like the political climate where I live was charged up by this hatefullness during the mid-term election. It is not much of a leap to believe this atmosphere could cause an unstable individual to act.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5888

PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Situations like this one in Arizona are terribly sad. How do crazy folks get weapons, and why do they flip out on innocent citizens? While it's highly unlikely that those on the front line of the radical right wing had any direct role this tragedy, it's hard look past the hateful attack rhetoric that they've been boldly broadcasting for some time now. They're deliberately fanning the fire in a constant attempt to whip up anger and dissatisfaction. They're an eager supporter of the right to bear weapons, and many in their ranks feel that should include a right to own automatic weapons. All you need in this kind of scenario is someone or a group with their screws loose.

Regarding mrgybe's take on this and his negative focus on the left's response to the tragedy, one only has to remember not too long ago about the military psychiatrist's slaughter of over 30 innocent folks on a US Military base. Did those on the right wing immediately jump to all sorts of crazy conclusions and eagerly attempt to spread them and affix blame? Without a doubt, and especially through 24/7 cable news and talk radio.

Although I'm of the opinion that caution and restraint should employed before jumping to conclusions about this tragedy, I also feel similarly about the dialog and opinion concerning our government and politics today. The strategies being actively used by those on the right have been particularly divisive and hateful, and I'm convinced that it can influence the kind of negativity and action that can have serious unintended consequences. I can only hope for a more sane approach in discussing and working out the myriad of complex issues and problems facing this nation and the world.
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jpbassking



Joined: 19 May 1998
Posts: 2386
Location: Leo

PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

swchandler wrote:
..They're an eager supporter of the right to bear weapons, and many in their ranks feel that should include a right to own automatic weapons. All you need in this kind of scenario is someone or a group with their screws loose..


Interesting thought SW, since Arizona laws allow law abiding citizens the right to concealed carry why didn't somebody shoot back?

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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14319

PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboardhead wrote:
It is fair to put Ms Palin up as an example of this rhetoric. It is not fair to blame her for these deaths.


You're kidding, me, right? Did some sick, stupid, uneducated, slimeball cretins blame Palin (or Beck or Limbaugh or Billy Graham or Adolph Hitler) for this? If so, pacspeed is hereby completely off the hook for implying, intentionally or not, that servicemen losing a few limbs in combat against Al Qaeda haven't earned their disability pensions. This is even sicker and just flat-out DUMBER, to say or even imply that reporting the news or expressing political facts or opinions must be suppressed because there are insane people on the loose, let alone to imply that political opponents or even MEDIA personnel are responsible. I wish these people had made their degree of insanity and brainless ideology clearer years ago; I hate to think of all the time I wasted treating them as adults. My GOD, what was I thinking? (Hey, President Obama ... treating miscreant nations or individuals as adults DOESN'T WORK.)

And, OH, yeah ... how are these scum's rabble-rousing rhetoric any different from whatever they're accusing Palin or Beck of? (And fughedaboutit; calling scum scum is not on the same level as saying a political opponent is responsible for an insane assassin's actions.)

Thank God and Twitter that this idiot's pre-shooting tweet eliminated the insanity plea from his defense arsenal. And thank God that an old retired colonel on a gum'mint pension helped subdue him before he was able to ram that next 31-bullet clip into his pistol.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14319

PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevenbard wrote:
Should I publish your pm's to me? Pretty violent sounding.

Gifford voted against Pelosi as leader. The biggest damage done was to a conservative FEDERAL COURT JUDGE, who supported Arizona immigration law, and held the Obama healthcare law to be unconstitutional. He was murdered.

Wrap your arms about that why don't you.


Do you think he cares any more about some conservative (i.e., Constitutional) judge than he does about the conservative WSer he also wished would die?

The last two guys who PMed me with libelous hate mail turned tail and have not been heard from again since their blather went public. One was even dumb enough to post under his real name, which made it even easier to Google up his home and work addresses, a long list of family and professional contacts and even contracts, his entire office staff, a Google fly-by of his house in the Gorge, and, if I had considered it worth $30, his entire legal history.

Mac's name is Jim McGrath. He used to be president of the USWA, and is presently its acting secretary. His behavior in these windsurfing forums fits right in with that of two other USWA officials -- and apparently most of his home community if this group is representative -- so the organization may not care, but you never know.

Another such windsurfing forum PM/e-mail stalker was reportedly fired from a cushy career after a victim DID notify his employer of the harassment, and several of the people I've killfiled are fortunate their libel hasn't harmed me fiscally, because Washington state's libel laws expressly include internet traffic.


Last edited by isobars on Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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feuser



Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 1395

PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrgybe wrote:
coboardhead wrote:
We don't know that was the situation here.


Precisely............and yet, predictably, so many here are prepared to jump to conclusions and engage in the same type a heated rhetoric which they condemn. The shooter lists the Communist manifesto and Mein Kampf as his favorites.........hardly indicative of a consistent political viewpoint. How about waiting for more facts to emerge before further stoking the fires?



At the core of the Tea Party "movement" lies distrust and hatred of government. These emotions were stoked relentlessly during the last election cycle with absolutely zero sense of responsibility regarding the possible results.

Sharron Angle repeatedly made the hardly veiled threat of armed insurrection ("2nd amendment remedies" she called it: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2010/06/sharron_angle_floated_possibil.html).

Her word's involvement in this act is in principle no different than that of a speech by Muqtada-Al-Sadr in an IED attack on our troops.

Tying to find a left-leaning cause for this act in this deranged young man's head is absolutely disingenuous and misleading - as is pointing out that there are right leaning victims in the attack. It was one side and one one party only that stoked and leveraged the potential for political violence and anarchism in the last two years. They need to be held responsible.

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http://www.windsurfing.kasail.com/
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5888

PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding isobars' latest posts, one has to ask, what's up with this kook?

isobars is really spinning out here. In my view, clearly a bit off the top. His guy is going over the handlebars.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5356

PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevenbard said:
Quote:
Should I publish your pm's to me? Pretty violent sounding.


Don't bother, I'll do it. Bard sent me an offensive pm that told me I had been brainwashed. I told him to get f---ed. He pm'm me again , and when I asked him what part of my earlier message he didn't understand he threatened me. If you can't understand the difference between sex and violence, no wonder your screws are loose.

Never pm'd Iso, but I've also never hidden my identity. But I don't back down to bullies.

I do owe mrgybe one. The Telegraph is owned by a different one of Britain's ultra rich. Apparently the brothers are reclusive, philanthropic, and 254th richest in the world, or so. This is said about them:
Quote:
Identical twin brothers have had a busy year consolidating their vast retail, publishing and real estate empire. First sold off Littlewoods stores and merged the remaining mail order business with their Gus group. Then unloaded storied Scotsman Publications to Johnston Press Plc. to focus on Conrad Black's Telegraph Group, which they bought for $1.2 billion. The ever sensitive brothers brought a criminal libel action in France against the Times of London for a November 2004 article they say maligned them; the trial is expected to start this year.


Undoubtedly from the class that mrgybe admires, but I was also wrong about Toby Harnden, who appears to be a well-respected journalists. One of those nuggets that didn't have to be plucked from too much horse manure. With that said, the language of violence, direct an subliminal, has been part of the right's game plan since Karl Rove hit the scene. Well before that in Arizona. And the judge who was shot was hated by the minuteman fringe because he allowed a lawsuit to go forward against a rancher alleged to have abused someone he thought was an illegal alien. The grand thing about America is that we hold the values that we should change politics with a ballot, not a bullet. We need to live our values. The right, and Sarah, need to own personal responsibility for encouraging a culture of violence against government leaders they disagree with. I've said that since Obama was elected.[/quote]
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