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Why the GOP IS the root of all evil...
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17743
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"I'd support Bull Connor..."
https://www.google.com/search?q=images+of+bull+connor&espv=2&biw=1280&bih=631&tbm=isch&imgil=588tN5lVwrqQFM%253A%253BtyAtQePecqkKFM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.glogster.com%25252Fbardtj%25252Fbull-connor%25252Fg-6mr3smv1kdqjhgci91heqa0&source=iu&pf=m&fir=588tN5lVwrqQFM%253A%252CtyAtQePecqkKFM%252C_&usg=__NEo0le28ckoKqgQlw4fU-OcR8rg%3D&ved=0CDcQyjc&ei=co-pVKO1ONSyoQTz34CIDQ#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=588tN5lVwrqQFM%253A%3BtyAtQePecqkKFM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fc3e308.medialib.glogster.com%252Fmedia%252F18%252F1882fcd981510b34222f796f064ad2e2dcacccee16ffb363a6bf1c7c915b10c4%252Fbull-connor.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.glogster.com%252Fbardtj%252Fbull-connor%252Fg-6mr3smv1kdqjhgci91heqa0%3B489%3B297
Do you actually know who Bull Connor is?
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KGB-NP



Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 2856

PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This wasn't Alabama or spawned by racism, but I think the cops were being way too nice, just as I thought my friend who had his construction site shut down by union thugs.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/riots-erupt-in-vancouver-after-canucks-loss-1.993707

Where do we draw the line for civil disobedience and rioting?

This seems to be the alternate....

http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/2014/08/ferguson_riots_north_county_business_owners_some_armed_survey_the_damage.php
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

reinerehlers wrote:
I don't think that's what Iso was saying.

Who doesn't think water cannons and, if necessary, trained police dogs, are not appropriate if necessary to stop terrorists from burning down businesses?

Every state allows you and me, and of course cops, to use any means necessary to stop "people" assaulting us with deadly weapons such as Molotov cocktails or bricks.

It's unclear to me why the police don't use the non-lethal arsenals available. Sound cannons can send crowds to their knees in pain or nausea. The nuclear weapons protection forces can shoot glue blobs that wrap up people like cocoons. Some cops have slime guns that do just the opposite: make standing up impossible. Why wasn't at least tear gas or used to protect the livelihoods of Ferguson's businessmen? Why not club arsonists (of buildings or cars) into submission if necessary? They're just F-ing thugs, criminals, terrorists, sometimes killers ... it's not like they have ANY right to go unchecked.

This would stop those two-legged animals in their tracks.
They're a lot bigger and badder than they look.

Caucasian Shepherd are used as Russian Prison Guard Dogs as well. The duties include protection, deterring criminal behavior, as well as searching for prisoners.
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KGB-NP



Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 2856

PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
reinerehlers wrote:
I don't think that's what Iso was saying.
Every state allows you and me, and of course cops, to use any means necessary to stop "people" assaulting us with deadly weapons such as Molotov cocktails or bricks.


Not necessarily....when the laborer's union showed up on my friend's construction site everyone became painfully aware of how these thugs were allowed to impose on the public's basic rights and allowed to commit blatant crime. I even sat there listening to threats of violence against myself and the builder. Trades were followed home and threatened in their own driveways, as well as, on the job site. I sat there and watched (unionized) police officers do NOTHING while the thugs threatened not only homeowners but the police themselves.

The truth is.....the mob rules!
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17743
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RR--there can be no greater symbol of bigotry and a militarized police force than Bull Connor. He was the brutal force behind the South's violent suppression of black civil rights, or as George Wallace said in his 1963 inaugural address, " I say segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever."

As often happens when conservatives argue, they pose only a series of false choices. Civil disobedience is part of our free speech right. We have the right to demonstrate. Those lawfully demonstrating are not subject to arbitrary violence because of the actions of others. Turning dogs and fire houses on them is exactly that. Those breaking the law are subject to arrest. It is reasonable to use proportionate force to arrest someone breaking the law--not unreasonable or disproportionate force. Your experience with union thugs, whether you have the facts right of not, have nothing to do with Isobars' argument, which is no different from those used in Alabama in 1963, or Berkeley in 1968 when cops opened fire on demonstrators. Invoking Bull Connor is even beyond the pale for Mikey.;
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

reinerehlers wrote:
isobars wrote:
reinerehlers wrote:
I don't think that's what Iso was saying.
Every state allows you and me, and of course cops, to use any means necessary to stop "people" assaulting us with deadly weapons such as Molotov cocktails or bricks.


Not necessarily....when the laborer's union showed up on my friend's construction site everyone became painfully aware of how these thugs were allowed to impose on the public's basic rights and allowed to commit blatant crime. I even sat there listening to threats of violence against myself and the builder. Trades were followed home and threatened in their own driveways, as well as, on the job site. I sat there and watched (unionized) police officers do NOTHING while the thugs threatened not only homeowners but the police themselves.

The truth is.....the mob rules!

I repeat: any U.S. citizen in most -- probably every -- U.S. state is authorized the use of any means required to protect him from force he rationally believes could lead to grave bodily harm. Some states take that a lot further, and IMO it should apply to a sprained finger deliberately inflicted by an attacker. Why should anyone have the right to deliberately and maliciously screw up someone's [i]afternoon, let alone his life?[/i] I guess that's why I'd never be appointed President, because the present one is setting precedents not far from that level of omnipotence and a lot of whining liberals would not like my solutions to crime (until they were the victim, of course).

In the case you mention, I'd keep calling in higher levels of cops until I found some honest ones with the clout to make heads roll. I'm always amazed how many times people get away with stuff like that, simply because for every little wannabe hoodlum out there, there's a mafioso, an ex-military spook, a disgruntled combat vet with PTSD, a redneck with a 12-gauge, a skinhead ... somebody who is capable and crazy enough to take care of business.

Don't even get me started on unions.
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KGB-NP



Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 2856

PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac wrote:


As often happens when conservatives argue, they pose only a series of false choices. Civil disobedience is part of our free speech right. We have the right to demonstrate. Those lawfully demonstrating are not subject to arbitrary violence because of the actions of others. Turning dogs and fire houses on them is exactly that. Those breaking the law are subject to arrest. It is reasonable to use proportionate force to arrest someone breaking the law--not unreasonable or disproportionate force.


There's a huge difference between demonstration and a riot. It's pretty much impossible for an outnumbered police force to cherry pick looters, vandals and arsonists out of a violent mob, let alone an angry mob in a gun crazy society. Burning police cars, vandalizing public and private property far exceeds what would be defined as a demonstration. When the actions of the mob whether hockey nuts, unions, protestors of whatever type escalate to those extremes the police are left with little alternatives but to administer necessary force to regain some resemblance of order, and the same goes for a bunch of union thugs blocking access to the public and employees to a construction site infringing on citizen's rights.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17743
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Force is allowed to affect arrest of lawbreakers. In Berkeley, a demonstrator was badly injured trying to stop a rioter from breaking into a store. The police do not have the right to make mass arrests without probable cause, or use indiscriminate violence. The result when that is done is that all of those arrested are released and cities are successfully sued for abuse of process.

One of the pressure points of demonstrations is to overload the system in ways it can't handle. The cost of police overtime and wrongful arrest lawsuits put counter pressure on local governments that ignore legitimate grievances. It's a pretty effective demonstration that, in some places, the municipal governments have lost the support of those they purport to govern. The right just doesn't seem to get this when it comes to police abuse of minorities. Someone of color is more than 20 times as likely to be shot by the police than someone who is white. The disparity in crime rate isn't even double. But we are so past racism--say white folks with no experience of prejudice or police hassling.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10588

PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While it might be the intent of the majority to demonstrate peacefully, there can always be a minority that want to get out of hand. To me, the key in dealing with an event is how well the police handle the problem. We have to remember that the US Constitution allows peaceful dissent, even if isn't popular with the establishment. Lastly, just like there are unlawful demonstrators, there are unlawful cops. Regarding the latter, they shouldn't be able hide behind their badge.
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 2597
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you listen to fools,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXl9mkRxPTg

-Craig

reinerehlers wrote:
The truth is.....the mob rules!
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