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Why the GOP IS the root of all evil...
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3519

PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NW loves his welfare. Most folks define welfare as money paid to someone less deserving than me.
I get a deduction on my income tax for the interest on my home. There is no reason homeowners as a special interest group should get this billion dollar tax subsidy. Some who get this scream at other welfare recipients because they get food but can't afford to own a home.
In the end all conservatives will get Medicare, and 10 times as much as we paid into SS.
Don't forget the Bush Drug benefit. It is a new class of welfare that is completely a Republican thing.
Conservatives love their welfare and the GOP will never take it away.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14454

PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's no gentle or nice way to say this: Why am I not surprised that, apparently, one of these ignorant socialists advocates raising the minimum wage?
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5460

PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

from the article: "Had workers on the lowest rung kept pace with the gains that have accrued to the one percent, it [the minimum wage] would have vaulted past $30 in 2007."

Now there are reasons that the incomes in America at the lowest levels were fated to reduce over time. In the 1960's, the United States used an even greater share of the worlds raw resources, and that trend could not be sustained. The free trade policies of the Clinton era accelerated that trend, but it was inevitable. There are some benefits to actually reading a source before trashing it--something I don't expect NW to master. The argument in the article is that the jobs left in America at the minimum wage cannot be outsourced. I'm not sure that is correct--my purpose in the post was to challenge conventional thinking, and predict that the Republicans will again step on their privates. When the intellectual resources left after you kick out the RINO's are the kind of folks that comment here, the future is not bright for the GOP.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1518

PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not against raising the minimum wage, but how much is the question for me.

What if it goes to $10 or $15, wouldn't companies that can benefit from illegal alien laborers be busting their butts to find cheaper labor? The illegals would be in VERY high demand since employers could save a bundle. So what happens to the American workers in some of those jobs? More unemployment?
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5965

PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just imagine if the Republicans and the conservatives really got serious and decided to negotiate and pass the $10.10/hr. minimum wage and legislate for real immigration reform and an answer for current illegal immigrants. Then, on top of that, worked to invest in education and infrastructure get the ball rolling for a vibrant America long into the future. If they can offer that kind of direction and leadership, the 2014 and 2016 elections could be theirs.

Or, will Republicans and conservatives promise a better America, but continue to deliver nothing, like what came out of their promises in 2010. I guess it will depend on their constituents, and whether they remain gullible and open to be fooled again and again.
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 1857
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

S dub~
Seriously, if $10.10 is so awesome, why not start it at $25, and then tie it to inflation? Why is the starting point so low if it's supposed to be a living wage? Sounds harsh to me.
'Because that's what they said', or 'that's the bill' is not an answer.

And who said anything against welfare?
Of course I think there should be some welfare, honest welfare, but run away welfare w/o any requirements, like random drug testing, no.

_________________
I don't drink the 'cool' aid, I drink tequila, it's more honest.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3519

PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The answer is that any rise is inflationary so you need to find a balance. The present level hurts people, so those who care about the American people are asking for a modest rise even though it hurts business.
You also need to pas the GOP house. They have been purchased by biz interests after they abandoned conservatives.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5965

PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NW30,

You ever been in a negotiation? The best result is a win-win outcome, or at least a reasonable balance of interests and goals between parties. Republicans would never agree to $25/hr., and I recognize that it would be unreasonable for many reasons.

Currently, Republicans and conservatives talk up a storm about folks being responsible for themselves and cutting the costs of government. The major theme being that taxpayers are unfairly carrying the burden of paying for folks that aren't cutting it. You have to admit that the earned income credit is costing us all. If the minimum wage is increased to some tolerable level that Republicans can accept, we as taxpayers will benefit because less of our hard earned tax dollars will go into paying the earned income tax credit. It doesn't eliminate the government program, but it's reasonably streamlined. For employers that are hiring folks at minimum wage, they're picking up the slack. Why shouldn't they? They benefit directly from employee labor.

In my view, any business that can't make it by paying entry level employees roughly 40% more than now really shouldn't be in business. Moreover, most business minded folks recognize that when costs go up, you must raise the price of your product. Speaking for myself, paying 5 or 10 cents more for a fast food burger isn't going to break the bank. All the Republican talking points about raising the minimum wage as a job killer is just nonsense crafted to fool folks that aren't thinking clearly.

I have to say that it bothers me that both you and Bard hang on this random drug testing issue. I've never supported employer related drug testing. It's an intrusion of privacy and personal freedom. The way that I look at it, if an employee isn't cutting it in the job, you move them out. It's revealing how folks like yourself create scenarios where folks must give up their personal freedoms and rights. Go back and look at the trumped up comments on the forum outlining the special conditions to vote in elections. Why is it that Republicans always want to restrict the right to vote for some?
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reinerehlers



Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 1042

PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Swchandler,
If a company is paying insurance on your safety while you're in the workplace then why shouldn't they be able to test you for drugs or alcohol? I pay 10% for workplace insurance and every injury increases that percentage. Does an employer not have the right to protect his liability and the employee's safety due to their own stupidity? Plus, when you're at work you represent the company you work for, and the company has an interest in their image. Intrusion of privacy, boohoo! I don't want to be exposed to people's stupidity or seeing them mangled or dead.
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 1857
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

swchandler wrote:

The best result is a win-win outcome, or at least a reasonable balance of interests and goals between parties. Republicans would never agree to $25/hr., and I recognize that it would be unreasonable for many reasons.

..................

I have to say that it bothers me that both you and Bard hang on this random drug testing issue. I've never supported employer related drug testing. It's an intrusion of privacy and personal freedom. The way that I look at it, if an employee isn't cutting it in the job, you move them out. It's revealing how folks like yourself create scenarios where folks must give up their personal freedoms and rights. Go back and look at the trumped up comments on the forum outlining the special conditions to vote in elections. Why is it that Republicans always want to restrict the right to vote for some?

Your first quote, I'm glad you recognize that, that was my point all along. But still $10.10 is still arbitrary, it is only that because it's as high as they think they can get approved. If the dems still had both houses, I'm sure it would be closer to the $25 mark, that would have fit more better into their "living wage" argument.
There will still be some employers, who currently have some minimum wage employees, whom they will feel just aren't worth $10.10/hr., so they will be replaced at least.

Your second quote, I'm talking about drug users taking our money for welfare, not the work place, even though I think testing should be done there as well. If you are spending welfare on drugs then you don't deserve any, simple as that.
And I agree with reinerehleres angle on that issue as well.

_________________
I don't drink the 'cool' aid, I drink tequila, it's more honest.
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