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It's time for a carbon tax
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coyotewindsurf



Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 1269
Location: SF Bay

PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
What did you expect after they elected a President based on "Hope and Change" ... read from a teleprompter?


Of course the alternative would have been a better selection.
Ms. Palin (and her hand-o-prompter) can be seen at her finest here...

Shocked

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mo
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feuser



Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 1395

PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrgybe wrote:
It's clear from the last two posts, and the absence of a response from Coboardhead, that no-one here can answer the question.........but still they believe that sweeping assertions based upon wafer thin knowledge is a satisfactory substitute for informed debate.


I am a little disappointed that you ignored my Gorilla analogy. Everyone here agrees that subsidies are a necessary evil. They distort the competitive marketplace, they hamper progress to alternatives, they cost money, etc.

Look, I work with a handful of guys in my small business. We pay the regular tax rate - we have no offshore tax haven and certainly cannot afford the overhead. When I go out and try to buy health insurance for my co-workers, I get no deal. If a large corporation decides they like to do themselves what we do, they will put me out of business in the blink of an eye.

It's a numbers game where size is leverage and directly translates into economics. Everything is rigged against me as a small business and I am supposed to subsidize big business? ANY big business?

If there is no societal, or environmental good directly linked to my tax investment, I don't want it spent. Consider it a tea-party-line argument from a liberal.

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florian - ny22

http://www.windsurfing.kasail.com/
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5830

PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

florian, I can see your point. I'm retired, still though, I'm with you on this. Folks involved in small businesses should be getting reasonable lift in the scheme of things, especially when it comes to hiring folks and getting reasonable healthcare benefits for their employees.
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feuser



Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 1395

PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

this makes me mad: http://tinyurl.com/yd5ugd9
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florian - ny22

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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3566
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrgybe wrote:
"There is no response to ignorance like keeping silence"

Spanish proverb

Or, as Roberto Duran said to his cornerman after receiving a beat down from Sugar Ray "no mas".
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 2668

PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

feuser wrote:
this makes me mad: http://tinyurl.com/yd5ugd9


Why?
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feuser



Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 1395

PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrgybe wrote:
feuser wrote:
this makes me mad: http://tinyurl.com/yd5ugd9


Why?


No idea. I'm just mad as hell. Maybe I'll vote for Palin next time, and get a job (and stocks) with Exxon.

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florian - ny22

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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3566
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrgybe wrote:
feuser wrote:
this makes me mad: http://tinyurl.com/yd5ugd9


Why?

Its funny that the Rethugs want to reduce the corporate tax rate from 35%-25% , when all the big boys pay 0-5%. Seems like they would want to keep things the same Rolling Eyes
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feuser



Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 1395

PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

boggsman1 wrote:
mrgybe wrote:
feuser wrote:
this makes me mad: http://tinyurl.com/yd5ugd9


Why?

Its funny that the Rethugs want to reduce the corporate tax rate from 35%-25% , when all the big boys pay 0-5%. Seems like they would want to keep things the same Rolling Eyes


Let them reduce the rates, if they can actually get the big boys to pay their share. I am not holding my breath - this is just too cozy.

I still cannot believe that my federal tax dollars help pay for highways on which Exxon gets to sell their product - and they're not even chipping in.

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florian - ny22

http://www.windsurfing.kasail.com/
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 2668

PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Digging a little deeper than Mother Jones chose to reveals a rather different view. The MJ piece was copied from a Forbes article. This is what the Forbes author subsequently wrote:

"What the financial statement says is that ExxonMobil, in 2009, after a handful of deferrals, recorded a total U.S. income tax benefit (i.e., a refund) of $46 million. Next to this, it shows total non-U.S. income taxes of $15.165 billion.

My mistake was in thinking that these figures somehow reflected actual tax benefits and liabilities. So what we should have written was that ExxonMobil “recorded” no U.S. income taxes for 2009 instead of “paid.” All you re-bloggers out there, please note the clarification. Mea culpa.

And for all you commenters outraged that Exxon isn’t paying taxes in the U.S., don’t worry, it is. Our article only focused on income taxes, but it’s worth noting that the 10-k also records $7.7 billion in other taxes in the U.S. (like sales taxes) and more than $50 billion of other taxes and duties paid (I mean recorded) overseas.
"

For those of you that don't know, XOM makes about 90% of it's income outside the US.

Exxon, GE, Apple, Google, etc. etc are optimizing their tax position within the bounds of the law, as they should, and we all attempt to do. Justice Learned Hand said it well:

"Tax planning is totally legal and the right of every American. Over and over again courts have said that there is nothing sinister in so arranging one's affairs so as to make taxes as low as possible. Everybody does so, rich or poor, and do right, for nobody owes any public duty to pay more taxes than the law demands. Taxes are enforced exactions, not voluntary contributions."
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