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Socialism
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14050

PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itís 2:00 AM. This topicís complexity woke me up at midnight, and, given my clinical insomnia, thatís the end of my sleep for tonight. Since my insomnia always impacts my health, is disabling every day, and is far too often life-threatening, that alone tells me this topic isnít worth my time, particularly since discussing it accomplishes absolutely nothing I can perceive. I see that my last post was garbled, and suspect the topic also cost me one of the seasonís last sessions by distracting my attention from the marginal forecast which understated several hours of modest but quite steady wind yesterday.

Many of you have studied this topic in schools and thought and read about it for years; Iíve done none of those, so my learning curve is still steep. That alone makes it interesting, but I
 see no practical end or purpose in debating it, and itís interfering with things and topics that are much more practical and urgent to me, so would someone please shoot me if I get involved in it again. I hope to hell iWís forthcoming new forum system allows killfiling whole threads; I havenít found or developed a way to do that yet, and lack the discipline to Just Say No.

You can start the chicken clucking all you want, but in the end it is -- or at least should be --I, not any of you, who determines what topics (and stonewalling, deliberately word-twisting dodgeball players who openly admit their objective is to get PLONKed) I spend my time on.

Mike \m/
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feuser



Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 1395

PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fact that one form of a pension funding is voluntary the other built into the tax volume does not make one capitalist and the other socialist.

Any guaranteed pension payout comes out of the operating capital of the working generation, i.e. those who are currently producing the pension of others. That capital has to be constantly expanding in order to ensure liquidity, however it sometimes contracts, thereby putting not only pressure on the pension funds but also diminishing productivity.

Social security was also meant to put a firewall between these systems in order to avoid this mutual downward acceleration.

If you were to replace all that with a true capitalist system, you would have to live off dividends as sell off your assets, the value of which are continually adjusted to the market. Good-bye guaranteed pensions, hello capitalism.

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florian - ny22

http://www.windsurfing.kasail.com/
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3334

PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iso has decided it is of no value to understand socialism. He is now returning to screeching "socialist" at Obama while he cashs his government check. The reason this topic is important is because he and his ilk who know little about socialism like to mention all the time heedlessly.

Last edited by keycocker on Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3512
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im still trying to figure out what I would do if I woke up at 2 am, but I doubt I would be on this forum.
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DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 1933
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
Itís 2:00 AM. This topicís complexity woke me up at midnight, and, given my clinical insomnia, thatís the end of my sleep for tonight. Since my insomnia always impacts my health, is disabling every day, and is far too often life-threatening, that alone tells me this topic isnít worth my time, particularly since discussing it accomplishes absolutely nothing I can perceive. I see that my last post was garbled, and suspect the topic also cost me one of the seasonís last sessions by distracting my attention from the marginal forecast which understated several hours of modest but quite steady wind yesterday.

SNIP

You can start the chicken clucking all you want, but in the end it is -- or at least should be --I, not any of you, who determines what topics (and stonewalling, deliberately word-twisting dodgeball players who openly admit their objective is to get PLONKed) I spend my time on.

Mike \m/


Somewhere in a lonely hotel room
thereís a guy starting to realize
That eternal fate has turned it's back on him
It's two a.m.

It's two a.m. the fear has gone
I'm sitting here waitin' the gun still warm
Maybe my connection is tired of taken chances
Yeah there's a storm on the loose sirens in my head
I'm wrapped up in silence all circuits are dead
I cannot decode
my whole life spins into a frenzy

Help I'm steppin' into the twilight zone
The place is a madhouse
Feels like being blown
My beacon's been moved under moon and star
Where am I to go
Now that I've gone too far
Help I'm steppin' into the twilight zone
The place is a madhouse
Feels like being blown
My beacon's been moved under moon and star
Where am I to go
Now that I've gone too far
Soon you will come to know
When the bullet hits the bone
Soon you will come to know
When the bullet hits the bone

partial lyrics of Golden Earring's "Twilight Zone"
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5774

PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very impressive Dan. Poems can often say things that can't be cast in a simple conversation.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3334

PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the 60s I thought it was sad how much energy the left spent on assigning opinions and attacking the opinion, "thousands of people in the street singing songs and carrying signs ,mostly say hooray for our side".
Now the worst of the right activists have begun the same thing.
We could do a lot with our mandate but are likely to do the same as the last years-nada except spend more money and blame it on someone else,lower taxes and see the debt mount while swearing that some invisible magic proves that the amount collected goes up even when it mostly goes down.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5774

PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know keycocker, the right is bankrupt in thinking that we don't have to raise taxes to pay for the nation's mistakes over time. Things are definitely serious, and attention to the details is paramount.

While I'm personally no longer carrying any debit other than my mortgage, I know first hand that your first responsibility, when deeply in debt, is paying your way out as soon as possible. I've had to do it in the past.

Quite frankly, cutting government isn't going to work. It's time for all of us to pony up and pay for our sins.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3334

PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find most folks, when they aren't repeating dogma, don't mind paying some taxes or even voting for them directly. It is the pervasive sense that tax money is being wasted puts many people off.
Me too.
I think it is possible there are good Gov. programs and Depts. out there but how do we know they even exist?
Every new program like health care makes me think how much I didn't like big Gov programs in the past no matter how well intended they seemed.
The small village socialism we have in Belize is completely voluntary contributions to deserving recipients with no waste or overhead charges. We once decided to paint every poor persons unpainted house in the whole island over drinks. It was amazingly easy to get paint donated and round up the tourists and slackers to paint 27 houses.
My friends and I have the best medical plan for our workers you could ask for. We fly them out in expensive air ambulances and pay an island doctor to stay with an injured person for days in city private hospital.
Once again not one wasted cent. They make money for us, we take care of them, gov please leave us be, we are all OK here.
On the other hand I have spoken against socialism all my life
Does that mean I don't support socialism or that I do?
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tramontana00



Joined: 15 Feb 2010
Posts: 152

PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

keycocker wrote:

Does that mean I don't support socialism or that I do?


You are not supporting socialism. You are supporting social programs that work. You could almost call it good business or investment. That has nothing to do with socialism, that is just common sense.

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double nothing
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