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lets be Fwank, Barney
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1849

PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sw chandler said
Quote:
What I think is most often overlooked by those protesting most vehemently about the mandate associated with healthcare reform is that everything is great until it isn't. To find out you're seriously ill or injured and not have health insurance has got to be hell.



Or to have a serious claim and get cancelled after paying over $100000 to an insurance company over the past 15 years. Happened to a friend of mine. Insurance companies cry foul over reforms. Give me a break!
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13317

PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboardhead wrote:
1. I, for one, am not taking "target" on anyone.

2. I do not believe, however, that personal freedoms have much any more to do with health care. I think this ship sailed a long time ago.

3. I am not prepared to say, O.K., governement out of health care.

4. If one wants seniors dying in their homes, children contracting diseases from lack of immunizations, crippled and sick soldiers painfully dealing with war injuries and the mentally ill roaming (in larger numbers) on the streets. Discontinue government involvement.

5. I would rather we try and build a system that is a combination of government, industry, providers and RESPONSIBLE consumers.

6. I also believe we are a compassionate society and will take care of those that NEED it.


1. By "If that makes me a ripe target for personally vetted centrist and near right facts and opinions, so be it", I'm referring to the targets of the rational element of TR, the TEA party, Fox News, etc. i.e., the center and the near right are aimed squarely between my eyes.

2. Then you and I are at opposite poles on that issue. The day I am threatened with prison for choosing and if necessary paying out of my own pocket THE physician I want to transplant my wife’s heart -- or put a bandaid on my pinkie -- is the day I leave this country in its crumbling dust. [That explicit threat may have declined since its Hillarycare clause, but that mindset prevails among the people now writing our health care bills: Pelosi and the SEIU.] The government bureaucrat who tells me I’m too old for a knee transplant when I can still shred gale force winds for 10 hours had better be wearing some body armor, because he’s going through the nearest wall seven feet off the ground before I leave this country in its crumbling dust to get my knee fixed elsewhere. And the government physician’s assistant from the bottom 1/3 of his class who orders me to accept chemical castration [which destroys an athletic lifestyle] “just in case” surgery didn’t cure my prostate cancer had better keep that Lupron needle the hell away from me if he doesn’t want to eat it. I live in MY goddamned body, not the government’s. And if I have to buy my own acromioplasty -- again -- because the VA won’t pay for it even though my shoulder impingement was service-connected, that will be my call, not Nancy f-ing Pelosi’s.

If you don’t want freedom to treat or mistreat your own body as you wish, fine, but the government hasn’t one iota of right to force every citizen to treat or not treat his body according to the government’s criteria.

3. I've seen no one advocate complete government disengagement from health care or HC insurance. The center and right 70% of the country oppose only mandatory universal socialized medicine; only the far left pols, media, and thus their sycophant internet parrots claim we believe in anything other than a mix of options above and beyond a solid base of care for everyone.

4. There’s such a thing as too much gov’t intervention.
• Berwick, who despite his illegal unvetted direct appointment can dictate sweeping changes in our health care, explicitly supports health care rationing because seniors contribute less to society.
• I’ve never seen anyone this side of certain religious cults oppose vaccinations.
• BARACK OBAMA HIMSELF posited the idea of pushing soldiers into having to buy their OWN GD HEALTH CARE INSURANCE as soon as they are wheeled out of the ER after getting their legs blown off by an IED; that pressure is already under way via higher Tricare premiums explicitly intended to drive soldiers into private insurance in order to cut the government’s cost of taking care of them AS THEY WERE PROMISED WHEN THEY ENLISTED.
• The mentally ill bury our streets in urine and feces and harass your wife on the streets because governments close down asylums as inhumane and, in some cities, PAY THEM $400 A MONTH TO DO SO (e.g., San Francisco, until public outrage curtailed it.)

Anyone who thinks those outrages don’t warrant SHOUTING doesn’t understand what the hell is going on in our country and, IMO, should not have any influence on its future … just as I felt I had no right to vote until I began paying attention in my 50s.

5. Your present administration has stated on the record and clearly demonstrated by its actions that it disagrees with you (and me) on both counts: joint government/capitalist endeavor and personal responsibility.

6. How does punishing success and rewarding failure by taking money at gunpoint from responsible citizens earning $40,000 and giving it to leeches who either refuse to work or earn as much as $82,000 because they WANT it -- whether it involves health care, welfare cash, mortgage bailouts, or any other unearned entitlements -- make this a better country in ANY way? (Anyone who claims I believe or am implying all welfare recipients are leeches is an idiot and needs to apply for a permanent job on “The View”.)
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13317

PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboardhead wrote:
The trick to making this a part of the system is to have the parties work together to mold this system. Still room for that!


Not with Pelosi and Reid in control. They have forbidden bipartisan participation in health care plan development.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5485

PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are the above rants from isobars a rational discourse? Hardly.

Oh yeah, and how about this from the guy who would like us to think that he would never in his life consider participating in a physical altercation.

"The government bureaucrat who tells me I’m too old for a knee transplant when I can still shred gale force winds for 10 hours had better be wearing some body armor, because he’s going through the nearest wall seven feet off the ground before I leave this country in its crumbling dust to get my knee fixed elsewhere."
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1849

PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, the conversation could have gone..

What did you mean by personal freedoms no longer apply to health care?

Answer:

I am referring to the requirement in health care that insurance is required. This is because a successful program involves up front involvement from anyone that will use the system.

Your freedom to choose not to have health insurance will, necessarily, IMO be a casualty of this plan.

Side Bar - This took me a lot of soul searching to reconcile personally. I just have not see a palatable "opt out" plan.

If this sort of dialogue is a possibility, let me know.
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mat-ty



Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 1033

PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://landing.newsinc.com/shared/video.html?freewheel=69016&sitesection=ndnsubss&VID=104191

Here is a vid of Fwanks, little lover boy,(not the prostitute the pot head) harrassing his opponent.

Sadly the scumbag will probably win, because his district was creatively designed to mostly include, elitist aholes,(from Bostons western burbs) and the useless non taxpayers he dependeds on, to stay in power.


Last edited by mat-ty on Tue Oct 19, 2010 12:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13317

PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboardhead wrote:
Your freedom to choose not to have health insurance will, necessarily, IMO be a casualty of this plan.

Side Bar - This took me a lot of soul searching to reconcile personally. I just have not see a palatable "opt out" plan.

If this sort of dialogue is a possibility, let me know.


The fundamental purpose of the Constitution is to LIMIT, not define, the government's power to deny us rights granted by our creator. Just as it expressly grants a right to tax us, it expressly forbids the federal government from legislating requirements not expressly allowed by the Constitution. A Harvard constitutional law lecturer named Barack Obama insisted that a heath insurance cost is not a tax, and most Constitutional lawyers concur. Thus until the Constitution is amended by a Constitutional convention, mandatory health care insurance purchase is against the Constitution and thus against the law.

That, plus socialized medicine's abysmal failure in most complex nations, leaves me with no palatable opt IN plan, unless it is really is an OPTION, rather than the camel's head our president STATED that it is when he said his goal was SP, GF, UHC within 10-20 years.

Besides, I'm amazed that anyone with a job has time for "dialogues". They achieve absolutely nothing unless they're with people with much more power than a voter to change a policy. [/i]
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3036

PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The entire power to change policy is in the hands of the voters. On the other hand Senator Haley points out that all elections are decided by the folks who don't vote.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13317

PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

keycocker wrote:
The entire power to change policy is in the hands of the voters.


Unless, of course, candidates make false or vacuous promises. Let's hope that never happens.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3036

PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In theory we can continue to change them until they improve, according to the Tea Party. This is another of their many points I agree with.
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