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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3334

PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"#1 and #2 are lies. "
Not lies exactly since iso doesn't know the truth one way or the other. It is really an example of that total fact checking Iso is so proud of on Talk radio.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1927

PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isobars said "Allow only one item/topic in any one congressional bill; no fair hiding a student loan bill in a war funding or highway bill.
• Vote on a bill at a hard, functional deadline, not only when the majority speaker or senate head decides s/he has enough votes to win.
• Vote out the biggest spenders on both sides.
• Reduce, rather than expand, the size of government."


I agree. It would be interesting to see if you could get candidates to agree to support items 1 and 2 during an election. Should be an easy question to ask.

It always seems like procedural changes to law writing are too hard to accomplish for these guys. But, spending large sums of money is easy. Or (There he goes again) complicating the tax code.

The last 1/2 dozen comments regarding paying for the cost of government have been interesting and informative.

Boggsman said "....Regarding inflation , it is percolating BIG TIME! Gold is screaming, commodities are screaming, health care costs are screaming, education costs are screaming, food is screaming, Patron is expensive, gas is about to get real expensive. Inflation is here , the CPI is low because the owners equivalent rent figures, a massive component , are super low because of the housing glut."


Patron - OMG! Gold or Silver?

Inflation might decrease the obligations of states, municipalities and school system to their pensions. Not to mention reducing the relative national debt. Yikes. Without looking it up myself (wolium), Boggsman, how does the stock market historically perform relative to inflation when inflation is very high?


Last edited by coboardhead on Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1927

PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't leave well enough alone.....

Iso, your comment about tossing out the biggest spenders got me thinking.

Suppose we automatically kick out the two biggest spenders in the Senate (adjusting for state size) each term. Constitutionally impossible; but entertaining.

But, do you suppose someone would start a program "No senator left behind"?
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14050

PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And consider that 3M is dropping health care coverage for many retirees due to Obamacare costs. Details TBD.

And how about the University of Georgia senior who criticized Walmart in the campus rag because that evil company CHARGED MORE FOR THEIR PRODUCTS THAN THEY COST TO PRODUCE. Do you realize that idiots like that VOTE?
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3512
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboardhead wrote:
Isobars said "Allow only one item/topic in any one congressional bill; no fair hiding a student loan bill in a war funding or highway bill.
• Vote on a bill at a hard, functional deadline, not only when the majority speaker or senate head decides s/he has enough votes to win.
• Vote out the biggest spenders on both sides.
• Reduce, rather than expand, the size of government."


I agree. It would be interesting to see if you could get candidates to agree to support items 1 and 2 during an election. Should be an easy question to ask.

It always seems like procedural changes to law writing are too hard to accomplish for these guys. But, spending large sums of money is easy. Or (There he goes again) complicating the tax code.

The last 1/2 dozen comments regarding paying for the cost of government have been interesting and informative.

Boggsman said "....Regarding inflation , it is percolating BIG TIME! Gold is screaming, commodities are screaming, health care costs are screaming, education costs are screaming, food is screaming, Patron is expensive, gas is about to get real expensive. Inflation is here , the CPI is low because the owners equivalent rent figures, a massive component , are super low because of the housing glut."


Patron - OMG! Gold or Silver?

Inflation might decrease the obligations of states, municipalities and school system to their pensions. Not to mention reducing the relative national debt. Yikes. Without looking it up myself (wolium), Boggsman, how does the stock market historically perform relative to inflation when inflation is very high?

Silver, $15 a pop in NYC .
Your best example of the stock market during inflation would be the 1970's. The S&P 500 outperformed the CPI by 400-500BPS. Translated: the market did well to outpace inflation. Stocks are the best bet during inflation, bonds get decimated. Unfortunately most individuals are underweight stocks right now and have missed a huge runup, which could represent the biggest par of the move until we get out of this mess.
You are correct , GOVT's are trying to inflate to reduce debt, a very very dangerous game.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5143

PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

October 3, 2010
Fear and Favor
By PAUL KRUGMAN
A note to Tea Party activists: This is not the movie you think it is. You probably imagine that you’re starring in “The Birth of a Nation,” but you’re actually just extras in a remake of “Citizen Kane.”

True, there have been some changes in the plot. In the original, Kane tried to buy high political office for himself. In the new version, he just puts politicians on his payroll.

I mean that literally. As Politico recently pointed out, every major contender for the 2012 Republican presidential nomination who isn’t currently holding office and isn’t named Mitt Romney is now a paid contributor to Fox News. Now, media moguls have often promoted the careers and campaigns of politicians they believe will serve their interests. But directly cutting checks to political favorites takes it to a whole new level of blatancy.

Arguably, this shouldn’t be surprising. Modern American conservatism is, in large part, a movement shaped by billionaires and their bank accounts, and assured paychecks for the ideologically loyal are an important part of the system. Scientists willing to deny the existence of man-made climate change, economists willing to declare that tax cuts for the rich are essential to growth, strategic thinkers willing to provide rationales for wars of choice, lawyers willing to provide defenses of torture, all can count on support from a network of organizations that may seem independent on the surface but are largely financed by a handful of ultrawealthy families.

And these organizations have long provided havens for conservative political figures not currently in office. Thus when Senator Rick Santorum was defeated in 2006, he got a new job as head of the America’s Enemies program at the Ethics and Public Policy Center, a think tank that has received funding from the usual sources: the Koch brothers, the Coors family, and so on.

Now Mr. Santorum is one of those paid Fox contributors contemplating a presidential run. What’s the difference?

Well, for one thing, Fox News seems to have decided that it no longer needs to maintain even the pretense of being nonpartisan.

Nobody who was paying attention has ever doubted that Fox is, in reality, a part of the Republican political machine; but the network — with its Orwellian slogan, “fair and balanced” — has always denied the obvious. Officially, it still does. But by hiring those G.O.P. candidates, while at the same time making million-dollar contributions to the Republican Governors Association and the rabidly anti-Obama United States Chamber of Commerce, Rupert Murdoch’s News Corporation, which owns Fox, is signaling that it no longer feels the need to make any effort to keep up appearances.

Something else has changed, too: increasingly, Fox News has gone from merely supporting Republican candidates to anointing them. Christine O’Donnell, the upset winner of the G.O.P. Senate primary in Delaware, is often described as the Tea Party candidate, but given the publicity the network gave her, she could equally well be described as the Fox News candidate. Anyway, there’s not much difference: the Tea Party movement owes much of its rise to enthusiastic Fox coverage.

As the Republican political analyst David Frum put it, “Republicans originally thought that Fox worked for us, and now we are discovering we work for Fox” — literally, in the case of all those non-Mitt-Romney presidential hopefuls. It was days later, by the way, that Mr. Frum was fired by the American Enterprise Institute. Conservatives criticize Fox at their peril.

So the Ministry of Propaganda has, in effect, seized control of the Politburo. What are the implications?

Perhaps the most important thing to realize is that when billionaires put their might behind “grass roots” right-wing action, it’s not just about ideology: it’s also about business. What the Koch brothers have bought with their huge political outlays is, above all, freedom to pollute. What Mr. Murdoch is acquiring with his expanded political role is the kind of influence that lets his media empire make its own rules.

Thus in Britain, a reporter at one of Mr. Murdoch’s papers, News of the World, was caught hacking into the voice mail of prominent citizens, including members of the royal family. But Scotland Yard showed little interest in getting to the bottom of the story. Now the editor who ran the paper when the hacking was taking place is chief of communications for the Conservative government — and that government is talking about slashing the budget of the BBC, which competes with the News Corporation.

So think of those paychecks to Sarah Palin and others as smart investments. After all, if you’re a media mogul, it’s always good to have friends in high places. And the most reliable friends are the ones who know they owe it all to you.


Couldn't have said it better,
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14050

PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

keycocker wrote:
"#1 and #2 are lies. "


Huh? Are you referring to my first two bullets?

• Spend less.
• Spend a few billion ....

Are you saying that spending less to reduce a deficit is a lie?
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5774

PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks mac for posting Paul Krugman's commentary. Without a doubt, that's how things are now unfolding from the right. Also, one must remember that the Roberts court has opened the door for corporations to spend unlimited funds to influence elections. While I can't prove it, I'm personally convinced that untoward outside influences are affecting the integrity of our US Supreme Court.
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mat-ty



Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 1065

PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funny thing, the new york times, boston globe, and many other liberal rags are on life support, and Fox is soaring!

Paul should watch Fox once in a while, he may be surprised at how critical they can be towards republicans. Unlike madcow, olbermann, and cnn, (i do think Anderson is fair), Fox brings in tough liberals, like Bob Beckel, Colmes, and others, to at least bring some balance.
Ted Turner never had any influence over at cnn, right?
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14050

PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before you vote next month, consider this...

Democrats around the nation are formally considering harming your country just to get their self-centered asses elected.

WSJ Headline: Democrats Look to Cultivate Pot Vote in 2012

http://tinyurl.com/26k72tf
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