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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3525

PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those extremist site " facts" did not work out to be real world.
It sure would have been a wonderful economy if it had, and we would have been out of debt at the the of the GOP run, and we would have elected the Repubs again.
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3703
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The question people should be asking is why did Bush, and his Rethug Congress in 2001, and 2003 need to sunset the new brackets he passed....The answer is SPENDING! You see the 2010 sunsetting of the Bush brackets coincided with a budget law that would allow 1.3TR in tax cuts WITHOUT the appropriate spending cuts to offset. So, Bush got to spend like a Drunken NAtional Guardsman and cut the top bracket from 39.6%-35%. Now, we are faced with a dilemna. Im not convinced that letting the top bracket roll back to 39.6% will have a negative impact on the economy. The extra $40,000 a $1m earner benefits just goes into GOLD , or Hedge Funds anyway.
I love the way ISO cites as "FACT" which is really just a cause and effect argument, oh the folly. If anyone wants to really learn about economics and taxes, the best economist, I think is Mark Zandi, at Moody's. He thinks we should phase in the expiration of the Bush tax cuts, over 2-3 years.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14481

PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CBO, OMB, White House, IRS, Census Bureau, ... "extremist sites"?

Do you think that everyone here is too stupid to see that all your bluster is nothing more than an obvious attempt to get yer ass PLONKed, as you've literally asked how to achieve?

Frankly, my dear, I wouldn't give you the satisfaction.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5968

PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well keycocker, you've got a truly unique opportunity to keep ripping isobars a new one without fear of being PLONKED. isobars has painted himself into a corner big time.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5968

PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The following commentary, "I'm Rich, Tax Me More", by Garrett Gruener appeared in the LAT today. Needless to say, I totally agree with him.



I'm a venture capitalist and an entrepreneur. Over the past three decades, I've made both good and bad investments. I've created successful companies and ones that didn't do so well. Overall, I'm proud that my investments have created jobs and led to some interesting innovations. And I've done well financially; I'm one of the fortunate few who are in the top echelon of American earners.

For nearly the last decade, I've paid income taxes at the lowest rates of my professional career. Before that, I paid at higher rates. And if you want the simple, honest truth, from my perspective as an entrepreneur, the fluctuation didn't affect what I did with my money. None of my investments has ever been motivated by the rate at which I would have to pay personal income tax.

As history demonstrates, modest changes in the tax rate for wealthy taxpayers don't make much of a difference if the goal is to build new companies, drive technological development and stimulate new industries. Almost a decade ago, President George W. Bush and his Republican colleagues in Congress pushed through a massive reduction in marginal tax rates, a reduction that benefitted the wealthy far more than other taxpayers.

We were told the cuts would accelerate business growth and create jobs. Instead, we got nearly a decade of anemic job growth, stagnating wages, declining incomes and high inequality.
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The supply-side, trickle-down economic policies of the last decade benefitted people like me, but the wealth didn't trickle down. So while we did quite well, people who live from paycheck to paycheck didn't.

When inequality gets too far out of balance, as it did over the course of the last decade, the wealthy end up saving too much while members of the middle class can't afford to spend much unless they borrow excessively. Eventually, the economy stalls for lack of demand, and we see the kind of deflationary spiral we find ourselves in now. I believe it is no coincidence that the two highest peaks in American income inequality came in 1929 and 2008, and that the following years were marked by low economic activity and significant unemployment.

What American businesspeople know, and have known since Henry Ford insisted that his employees be able to afford to buy the cars they made, is that a thriving economy doesn't just need investors; it needs people who can buy the goods and services businesses create. For the overall economy to do well, everyday Americans have to do well.

Now that the Bush tax cuts are about to expire, Republicans are again arguing that taxes should remain low for the wealthy. The idea is that this will spur people like me to put more capital to work and start more ventures, which will create new jobs, power the economy and ultimately produce more tax revenues. It's a beguiling theory, but it's one that hasn't worked before and won't work now.

Instead, Congress should let the Bush tax cuts expire for the wealthiest Americans and use the additional tax revenues that are generated to invest in infrastructure and research. "Invest" is the right word. Putting money into infrastructure such as roads, bridges, broadband, the smart grid and public transit as well as carefully chosen research initiatives provides a foundation for future growth. As important, it puts funds in the hands of those who will spend them, generating demand that will pull us out of our economic crisis and toward a new cycle of growth.

No one particularly enjoys paying taxes, but one lesson we should have learned by now is that for the good of the country, we need to tax people like me more. At a minimum, we need to return to the tax rates of the Clinton era, when the economy performed far better. Simply taxing the wealthiest 2% of Americans at the same rates they were taxed before the Bush tax cuts could reduce the national deficit by $700 billion over the next 10 years. Remember, paying slightly more in personal income taxes won't change my investment choices at all, and I don't think a higher tax rate will change the investment decisions of most other high earners.

What will change my investment decisions is if I see an economy doing better, one in which there is demand for the goods and services my investments produce. I am far more likely to invest if I see a country laying the foundation for future growth. In order to get there, we first need to let the Bush-era tax cuts for the upper 2% lapse. It is time to tax me more.

Garrett Gruener is the founder of Ask.com, chief executive of Nanomix, the co-founder and director of the venture capital firm Alta Partners and a member of the advisory board at NDN, a center-left think tank in Washington.

Copyright 2010, Los Angeles Times
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3525

PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iso really thinks that the media outlets he adores and reports on nonstop are actually the White House, the IRs and so on.
The rest of us don't really trust the media and we doubt that they always give us a complete and accurate picture. If Iso heard it on the media then it is sure to be true, esp if it came from an extremist source.
Once he quotes it aloud that makes it a verified fact.
Note he still thinks I care if he reads my posts. When he starts to censor me I doubt I will notice.
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jpbassking



Joined: 19 May 1998
Posts: 2387
Location: Leo

PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great article SW, it's too bad that more rich guys don't share Garrett's perspective.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5968

PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know JP, it isn't about giving very rich folks a choice, even though some like Garrett Gruener readily get the picture. Really, it's about making the country better overall for Americans of all financial levels.

It should be noted that Gruener didn't talk about welfare or refer to any of the socialist jingo coming from the right these days. He's interested in investing in a growing future, and he realizes that excess money being made at the top can be better focused to stimulate real growth and innovation in this country. No doubt, if that's done, there's incredible profit to be realized right here in America.
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