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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14322

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevenbard wrote:
Racism is a very ugly charge. Very stupid. Very uninformed.


And, obviously and almost universally, the left's ubiquitous wild card. It's thus to be ignored as absolutely meaningless.
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DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 1961
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevenbard wrote:
Citing the facts in a CDC study becomes racist? This is why nothing logical is getting done in congress.

I assure you that the vast majority of Americans thought the stimulus would be wisely spent on manufacturing jobs, banks, infrastructure, unemployment insurance hospitals etcettera.

The sad fact is that Americas debt, for the 1st time in history totals more than all the money in the world, in all currencies. (M1,M2,M3) It is so sad that some of you guys don't get it......we can't afford frivolous fiddling while Rome burns.


Citing a CDC study isn't racist, of course and, just as obviously, that was not what I wrote. You wrote the following while attempting to justify your objection: http://www.iWindsurf.com/forums/posting.php?mode=quote&p=139410 That certainly sounds racist for the reasons I explained earlier.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5893

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"The sad fact is that Americas debt, for the 1st time in history totals more than all the money in the world, in all currencies. (M1,M2,M3) It is so sad that some of you guys don't get it......we can't afford frivolous fiddling while Rome burns."

You say stuff like this Bard, but at the same time you're pumping hard for tax cuts, and probably over and above just the Bush tax cuts. You have to remember that a significant portion of our debt was incurred because the past administration spent like a drunk sailor on a couple of wars with no intent to pay for them out of pocket. Would you have supported a tax surcharge to pay for those wars from day one, or at least suspended tax cuts to the rich until those wars were over? I seriously doubt it.

I think responsible Americans know that the Bush tax cuts, even those for the middle class, should be allowed to expire to aggressively begin addressing our huge debt problems. I know from my own personal experiences that you can't realistically address and reduce financial debts without a degree of sacrifice and commitment. Pretty simple really. Bills don't get paid by smoke and mirrors BS like most of the Republicans and tea partiers foolishly believe.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4231

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This shouldn't be hard for yoy to understand Chandler but here goes:

When taxes are raised on the investor class, they stop investing that incremental cash because it goes to crackheads and beauroucrats instead. They produce nothing of intrinsic value. Every time they've lowered taxes the economy booms. (and they generate higher taxes) Secondly foreign investors move here because taxes are low. They have been fleeing for 2 reasons:

1) Terrible regulatory environment
2) High and unpredictable taxes.

I stopped investing (and hiring) in 2005. It was painful, and for 2 years I regreted the decision. Of course today would be the dumbest time to create any new jobs. The investor class has for all intent and purposes, picked up their toys and gone home.

If they dropped taxes to 0 like they were when my father was born, you'd create another roaring 20's senario. The boom in employment would be incredible, and wealthy foreigners would move their capital back here in droves.
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3615
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bard I spend all day with the "investor class". You are dead wrong, from my viewpoint. The last two years have been huge for investors who have decided to take risk...if the average pro were scared of regulation and taxes he wouldnt be pouring capital into distressed assets, stocks, or any other assets in the US. Money is NOT fleeing the US, and its not low taxes that attracts $$, if that were the case Ireland would be king today, not BK, its a strong currency that attracts foreign investment. the correlation of a strong local currency and foreign inflows in quite remarkable. The 20's ended the same way the 2000's ended, so I wouldnt reference the 20's as a model of economic dynamism. If you spend too much time bashing the GOVT in the USA, and not investing, I guarantee you will miss the next boom, its very similar to the chatter in 1994. Techland is on FIRe with M & A right now, and the seeds are planted , so dont be too negggggggative!
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14322

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or if we just implemented the Fair Tax, they'd come in even bigger droves. I -- and its research team from Harvard University, Stanford University, Boston University, Rice University, MIT, the National Bureau of Economic Research, the CATO Institute, the Heritage Foundation, and the Argus Group -- haven't heard of a better solution yet for the problems caused by our federal tax structure.
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DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 1961
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevenbard wrote:
SNIP

If they dropped taxes to 0 like they were when my father was born, you'd create another roaring 20's senario. SNIP.


That didn't end so well, did it?.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5893

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The "investor class"? Bard, you must be joking right, like they're something special that should be worshiped and adored? What a total pantload! Are you competing with isobars to be a total airhead wingnut?

You need to study history a bit more and realistically alter your pitch to even begin to be credible. Higher tax rates in the past have yielded significant growth for investors, this nation and the world. That's an indisputable fact.

You must figure that folks here are as foolish and stupid as those tea partiers out there. I don't know though whether even they would buy the "investor class" BS you're barking.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3459

PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

---- Every time they've lowered taxes the economy booms. (and they generate higher taxes)----
The biggest tax cut in human history was implemented by Bush. Later he added the second biggest. We are enjoying the results right now.
The GOP Congress was chanting that mantra as they spent us into the poor house.
How bout those 20s...
Reagan tried too.
Dems are not better-but the above theory of taxes simply does not work.
Still I am glad they tried it again in modern times so we can now be sure it does not work over a range of economic conditions.
Frankly, this was always one of my favorite fairy tales too. It seems like magic. You just stop charging taxes and everybody gets rich right away from a giant economic boom and we collect more taxes in the end.
In the real world to you have to spend less and slowly lower tax rates since you don't need the money anymore. As they go down you can expect a slight boost from more available capital.
Buffet says rich people he knows are likely to save most of the dif. but a modest assist seems possible.
The price will be unemployment. Most gov. waste is salaries.
"Cut costs" equals "fire a lot of folks"
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14322

PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've cited the government's own data here before, KC; it's historical fact.
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