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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14050

PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Worse than those working conditions is the apparent fact that those workers have no better alternative. It would appear that Apple has bettered, rather than worsened, their circumstances. Would they be homeless and hungry if Apple hadn't come along? Is their glass half empty or half full?

Mike
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5138

PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So what's the answer? This started with a very obscure post, that somehow is being used to interpret that we have different standards for Haliburton and for Apple--boy, talking about reading into something only what you put in. Then there is an anti-union screed from bard. Not such a simple question, and probably a little more complicated than conventional red state blue state sloganeering.

China, with a deplorable totalitarian state and poor worker safety standards, has lifted an immense number of people out of poverty. Can I condemn that absolutely? No, I think poverty is a particularly vicious problem. Should it be improved? Definitely. How? Some here would automatically rule out unions, but they are all beneficiaries of the unions efforts to achieve a 40 hour work week. We grow too soon resentful and forgetful of history. What corporation gave workers safe conditions and reasonable wages without pressure from either another company, organized workers, or the government?

Perhaps a little thought would be in order here.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4056

PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I'm concerned, We are at war with communist China. It is now an economic war.

Obama could easily attract millions of jobs back to America if he'd cut regulations, leave taxes alone, and promote the idea that America is and will always be a free market economy.

Socialist Europe is collapsing due to over taxation, regulation, and debt.
The Euro was at 1.50 to the dollar a few months ago. Today it is at 1.19 and still falling.

Ironically, China has the least amount of regulation, and lower taxes than us, and is now creating jobs at a faster pace than any country on earth.
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3512
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevenbard wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, We are at war with communist China. It is now an economic war.

Obama could easily attract millions of jobs back to America if he'd cut regulations, leave taxes alone, and promote the idea that America is and will always be a free market economy.

Socialist Europe is collapsing due to over taxation, regulation, and debt.
The Euro was at 1.50 to the dollar a few months ago. Today it is at 1.19 and still falling.

Ironically, China has the least amount of regulation, and lower taxes than us, and is now creating jobs at a faster pace than any country on earth.

Steve......comparing China to the US is crazytalk. ZERO regulation ? are you kidding? If you hop off a plane in Beijing, check into the Hilton, boot up your MAC, and search for Google.com, maybe to find a good restaurant , what do you think will happen? Remember, the main reason we collapsed here in the US was the LACK of regulation in the mortgage market, and derivatives market.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5771

PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to say Bard, you are readily showing how daft you are blindly rooting for cutting regulations. You might want go back and study some real history instead of the imagined fantasy stuff you seem to hang on.

From mrgybe's original post on this thread, it's my take that he's implying that reasonable regulations need to be employed in China to protect worker's rights. I can honestly say that I don't disagree with him on that front, but I have to wonder whether you do given your comments.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4056

PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The irony is that China has a better tax and regulatory environment than we do. (no I don't want $1 a day wages)

But if I said "fuck Hu Jintao" I'd been shot.....

I said nothing about financial regulations, but if we'd let them fail, we'd have no need for regulations.....

In China, they'd just shoot the bank managers.
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3512
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, you're just wrong. I wouldnt switch places with China in a million years. ZERO regulation on environmental issues, Iron Fist regulation on internet commerce and usage, no thanks. Nothing ironic about that.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5138

PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bard--you continue to provide us with ample evidence that you are not a deep thinker. The reason that China provides more jobs is that they don't waste any money on environmental protection, but most fundamentally their wage structure is immensely less than ours. Ditto Indonesia and any number of areas that manufacture things like windsurfing equipment cheaper than we can here. And I think your efforts to blame Obama for the oil spill, and champion more deregulation here are simply the ravings of a mad man. I have no expectations for consistency out of Obama haters who will twist facts and history to attack him--and then claim that they are not bigotted. Sure, neither is Rand Paul. He just doesn't like any rules that say we should treat people equally.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4056

PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm no socialist or Marxist. But....we have to compete with a new world order (China). If we don't compete with them we lose.

Obama seems to think you can have a huge growing bureaucracy, High taxes, tons of regulation, free health care for everyone who doesn't work, 4 out of 10 Americans on some sort of government assistance, AND THRIVING JOB/INCOME GROWTH?

He smoked too much crack my fellow crackers......and China keeps building their military-industrial complex while Obama pontificates.

ps. Gold is still above 1200.
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3512
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr Bard, China is a communist country. They are allied with countries like NKorea, and the Sudan. They also have 1TR in US paper on their books, im pretty sure I dont want to sacrifice my ways to be like them.
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