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The Roll of Government?
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5816

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bard, you might want to take the time and read Linda Darling-Hommond's article that mac highlighted. There's a chance that it might change your mind.
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DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 1945
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevenbard wrote:
That's why it would be much better for the states to manage their own education programs and budgets. Centralized government and education are too bloated.


Centralized government in education? The federal government provides huge benefits to the most vulnerable of all students. I'm thinking only of what is known as the Hot Lunch Program but which feeds millions of children breakfast.

My daughter attends a Boston public school. Many of the kids take the bus to school, but I like to spend time with her in the morning, so I drive her the short distance in my car. We often arrive around 7:30 before the classroom opens. She is dropped off in the cafeteria. Why, you might ask?

In that cafeteria are about 150 little kids who are eating breakfast courtesy of the federal government. Without breakfast at school, these kids literally would go hungry through the part of the day most important for learning.

This is at least one benefit of our "bloated" federal government. I'll give you another example, one on which I worked directly in 1994, the reauthorization of the Elementary and Secondary Education Act (n.k.a. No Child Left Behind). Language inserted into the draft bill by Former Sen. Strom Thurmond would have de-funded all federal benefits to any school district that is accused of violating a student's right to free expression of religion. Again, not that a district needed to be found to have actually committed such a violation, but only that it be accused. Remember, this was when many on the right wrongly believed that the Constitution banned a child from praying in school and that a ban on public prayer at a school graduation was violative of the free exercise clause. Thus, under Thurman's proposed language, a district would loose its breakfast and lunch funding until all appeals were exhausted in favor of the district on a free exercise claim. Had Thurman's language been included (and it almost was), the most vulnerable would have suffered.

Why do I claim this as an example of good governance? Because the same thing can happen in each of the 50 state budgets. Without the backup of the federal food budget, the welfare of every kid in the US schools is put at risk.

I am always amazed that honest and thoughtful consideration gets put aside by people who wish to return a vision of the USA that never existed. We fought a civil war over the concept of federalism. We're done. Labels and broad stroked accusations are meaningless.

If you want change, get involved. Do something. But choose what you do not based on ideology but on what you really see in your own life. Don't do the Mike Fiction. By that I mean, don't look at stories across the country, stories of very dubious accuracy, and try to jam them into a solid foundation for political beliefs.


Last edited by DanWeiss on Tue Jun 15, 2010 10:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3554
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great piece DWeiss. I doubt folks like Bard in Malibu are in tune with the realities of many familes in this country. Im happy to pay my taxes if I know they are heading to the children who need the help. The other point he misses is that many states, mostly poor Southern states that vote repub, could not swing these social programs on their own. They need resources from states where economic activity is greater.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3358

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought of a government control I like -the no call list.A@@holes called my disabled sister 10 times a day to con her. I don't know why they focused on her number, but it broke her heart and we could not get rid of this kind of Spam.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4115

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

60% of the U.S. population now receives more from the government than they pay. 40% are on some sort of government assistance. Nobody in America goes hungry. They get food stamps.

On another subject for the libs, listen to this. Skip to the last 20 seconds if you're bored.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4069761537893819675#
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DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 1945
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevenbard wrote:
60% of the U.S. population now receives more from the government than they pay. 40% are on some sort of government assistance. Nobody in America goes hungry. They get food stamps.
SNIP


This figure, however accurate or inaccurate, proves nothing. It could illustrate that the population is getting poorer as much as it might mean that the 60% are abusing the system.

Finally, your "claim that nobody in America goes hungry" proves one of two things. Either you know the absurdity of that claim and only make it to stir the waters, or you know nothing beyond the tip of your nose. That is, by far, the most shameful claim I've ever read on this forum. Not only is it patently false, but very unlikely to ever be proven true -even it hypothetically was accurate, since only one exception to your statement need to be found to disprove it in its entirety.

Again, why not dispense with the sweeping absolutes? It might help you actually convince someone of your viewpoints.
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DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 1945
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevenbard wrote:
60% of the U.S. population now receives more from the government than they pay. 40% are on some sort of government assistance. Nobody in America goes hungry. They get food stamps.

On another subject for the libs, listen to this. Skip to the last 20 seconds if you're bored.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4069761537893819675#


That's rich. She spends 25 minutes describing the brutal killing of her parents by a guy whose behavior she excuses because she recognizes that he was a "madman" and then states that the 2nd Amendment is to protect her from the Senators holding the hearing.

The basic argument for owning guns for self protection is that the bad guys have guns. Talk about a self-fulfilling prophesy. Don't like guns? Why not get a gun? Too many guns? Buy a gun to protect yourself from the other guns.

Whatever. I'm not advocating for the elimination of the right to bear arms, whatever that means. I am advocating for some thoughtful discussion from you.
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3554
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DanWeiss wrote:
stevenbard wrote:
60% of the U.S. population now receives more from the government than they pay. 40% are on some sort of government assistance. Nobody in America goes hungry. They get food stamps.

On another subject for the libs, listen to this. Skip to the last 20 seconds if you're bored.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4069761537893819675#


That's rich. She spends 25 minutes describing the brutal killing of her parents by a guy whose behavior she excuses because she recognizes that he was a "madman" and then states that the 2nd Amendment is to protect her from the Senators holding the hearing.

The basic argument for owning guns for self protection is that the bad guys have guns. Talk about a self-fulfilling prophesy. Don't like guns? Why not get a gun? Too many guns? Buy a gun to protect yourself from the other guns.

Whatever. I'm not advocating for the elimination of the right to bear arms, whatever that means. I am advocating for some thoughtful discussion from you.

DWeiss, dont hold your breath. Bard's connection with reality outside of Zuma is thin.
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windoggie



Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 2396

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is this thread the Role of government or how the government rolls?
_________________
/w\
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4115

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boggs, this is my reality here at Zuma. Leo 10 days ago
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