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The Roll of Government?
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5481

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know Bard, I don't think Boggsman was referring to your windsurfing feats in his last comment.

Just as a point of clarification, you may have been out sailing the day the photo was shot, but it wasn't you depicted in it. Just like it's important to give proper credit when posting someone else's comments, you ought to identify the sailor in the shot and the person that took it. That's simply being respectful and honest.
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DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 1889
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I reach out to Steven as a fellow windsurfer with whom I might have shared waves in the early 90s when I lived in Malibu. I can tell you that his apparent myopia is not help by many others with whom I shared that beautiful coastline, even at the very conservative University I attended. Classic liberalism is the root of decent conservative thinking and why I led my College Republicans until the time I saw first-hand what the GOP was all about. Most active at the local level were ideologues who seemed unable to do more than donate money and clink cocktail glasses. Very, very few were able to engage in plans of action to achieve the goals, other than a plan to elect someone else to do the dirty work.

Those at the local Democratic Party meeting surely gave money and drank gin & tonics but also were heads of charitable social service organizations, volunteered to feed the poor and, despite the horror of it all, went to church or other service just as regularly as the GOP folks. Sure, some of the GOP did volunteer work, but most that I came to know were those volunteers at the Philharmonic or protesting at abortion clinics. As an adoptee myself, I asked why nobody in the right-to-life clique advocated adoption rather than pressing the young mother to raise her baby. A lot of mumbling and pebble-kicking ensued.

A stark contrast between the groups. Not enough to claim anyone who takes a view different than mine is nuts, but enough for me to invest in the things I care about.

I just wish Steven would offer up his own thinking when he makes a point.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3035

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Belize was a country largely without guns.Even the cops went unarmed ten years ago.The average murder rate was 2.5 a year.Two from stabbings, usually machetes, and one from poisoning.
Jerks quoting the 2nd amendment who had not read it,came from the States with their guns. They were not members of a "well organized militia". Their guns were much in demand by home thieves.
The murder rate last year was 134- two with machetes and one poisoning all the rest were guns. Even three policeman were convicted of gun murders, outside work hours, in disputes over women.
I completely uphold the 2nd if you are a member of a state sponsored well organized militia like the National Guard or even a small town part time deputy sheriff. The NRA support for groups of guys riding low with a trunk full of guns is despicable.
The NRA came out lately in support of guys on the terrorist watch list who buy large caches of arms.
NRA gets it money from gun makers, and uses most of it to buy politicos from both parties.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5481

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never owned a gun, but I have fired them over time. Although most of it was target shooting, I did kill a bird once in my early teens. I wasn't happy about the latter, but it happened.

The thing about guns is that if you buy them, you're almost obligated to use them. That's where things can get out of hand with some. Why? One only has to keep a reasonable tab on local news, and that's just for starters. Where's the end to it?

That's a damn good question.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 4673

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Supreme Court has ruled on guns--and on crosses on public property and the ability of corporations to give unlimited amounts of money. 20 years of conservative appointments have paid off, and I expect abortion rights to be diminished as well. That's all, as they say, settled law.

The thing that is missing from the video, and completely from bard's thinking, is what it all means. Bard, and others who weren't terribly successful in math and reasoning classes, cite a single incident as somehow proof of a trend, or a fundamental right. They don't pay any attention to the actual collection and analysis of information. Certainly a well trained marksman, armed, can stop a crime and reduce the human damage. But very few are well trained, and what the facts actually show is that people who own guns have them stolen, or used them against themselves, infinitely more often than they have used them to stop a crime. Those who are most experienced in violence win those confrontations. The idea that owning a gun will protect you from the bad guys is an urban myth--supported and spread by those who make money out of selling you false security.
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3331
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bard , is that you?
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 3631

PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, same day, this is me....I was trying to relay size and conditions while leaving the sailor anonymous. So please stop micro critics.

If photographer wants credit, he'll get it.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 3631

PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now back to the courteous questions from Dan....

I do not trust big government. Our founding fathers didn't trust big government. What happened in the white house yesterday is a perfect example of why I don't trust government. $20 billion slush fund to be administered by the white house. Doesn't that sound more like Venezuela? What did Obama say to BP? What are they going to do with the money? Hand it out to their political friends?

We didn't even have an income tax in our country until 1930. How did we survive up until then.

I'm tired of 60% of the people getting more from the government than they give. Everyone in our country should make a positive contribution to our government. Even if only a few dollars. This welfare state has destroyed any hope or desire to acheive. Millions of people just don't try anymore.

With regards to the democrats feeding the poor, the conservatives were too busy creating jobs. And like the old saying goes. "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."

This would be my political philosophy in a nutshell.
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3331
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Lionshare of States that dont pay income taxes are republican leaning states, could you please alert your fellow repubs of your message? In a state like Mississippi, which always votes republican, and is always no. 50 out of 50 on the poverty scale, Mr. Bard, why dont you think they want to work hard and get off welfare?BTW, the median income of democrats in 2004, and 2008, who voted , was higher than repubs, so your entire thesis is bunk. The majority of Silicon Valley, the most productive , highest paid region of our great land votes democrat.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3035

PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I was in the Conservative Student Union at college, few members had much interest in job creation.They were almost all focused on redistribution of wealth. Many came from affluent families and were there to network to move more money in their direction.
They succeeded, too, because the disparities in income have increased throughout my whole adult life. It wouldn't hurt if the opprtunities were spread out more evenly among all those willing to work.
The far right would interpret my opinion as saying that we should give money to people to sit on their asses,but in fact those like me are talking about working people. I think Obama is too. He makes that clear to those who are listening.
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