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Checing Fox news lies
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3334

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My take on the problem comes from seeing it from the world outside. I ask Hispanic people who are in Latin America why they want to go to the States. It is "because the rich people who own the big farms and companies will hire you for a lot more than in Honduras even though they treat you like dirt."
When you know this you know that the companies hiring large numbers of illegals are the root of the problem. When a cop in Arizona pulls over a guy in a limo, does he make him prove he did not get rich committing not one but tens of thousands of immigration offenses?
They have the wrong people laying on the ground.
If Arizona gets rid of a 100K of illegal aliens, that will attract 200K more looking to fill those empty jobs.That attraction is created by the real crooks, who are in their offices right now writing checks to lobbyists to hand out to both Dems and Republicans.
These working people didn't come here for the good weather.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14050

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I forget the details, but many republicans have proposed a sensible plan including such elements as:
Seal and control the border, admitting only LEGAL immigrants (what a concept!).
Then, and only then, start deporting people convicted of other crimes who turn out to also be illegal aliens.
Define a path to citizenship for well-behaved illegal aliens which puts them at the end of the line behind legal immigrants and demands tougher hoops to jump through. The idea is to penalize them for sneaking in.
NO, YOU DO NOT GET TO BRING IN YOUR WHOLE GD EXTENDED FAMILY JUST BECAUSE YOU MANAGED TO SNEAK IN AND DON'T ROB ANY BANKS or join a gang. Nor do you get welfare, education, food, routine medical care, etc. just because you're here. You EARN those PRIVILEGES by becoming a citizen. And HELL NO we're not going to print everything in your language. Learn ours or you don't drive, vote, catch an airplane, or any other of the PRIVILEGES we have.
You wanna work? Fine; get a green card.

For starters.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5143

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The reason that people sell drugs is because other people buy drugs, and are willing to spend a lot of money for that. How well has the drug war worked, after many years? Drugs are one of the top 5 elements in the world economy. That program, Republican devised, is working well, isn't it.

Why do people from Latin America come to the United States--because people hire them, without documentation, and pay them more than they make in their home countries. Huge numbers in construction and service industries. And Republican farmers have fought to keep the market for hiring seasonal workers open.

So Bush proposed "sealing the borders" with fences, virtual fences and the like. How well did it work? Quite well for contractors that made lots of money. None of it actually worked. But it made a lot of money for Republican campaign contributors.

It is ironic that Obama has deported a record number in the past 2 years, and immigration is at its lowest in many years because of the economy--and Arizona all of a sudden passes a bill because they are getting overrun. Not. This is about social policy--and resentment by assholes like Isobars who don't want to hear Spanish when the go to Home Depot. Get over it, we're all immigrants.

And NW and bard think that we can hire enough lawyers, cops, and judges to deport people faster than they are having babies. Clearly they can't do the math.

So sad. No easy solutions, but lots of vitriol.
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 1651
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
I forget the details, but many republicans have proposed a sensible plan including such elements as:
Seal and control the border, admitting only LEGAL immigrants (what a concept!).
Then, and only then, start deporting people convicted of other crimes who turn out to also be illegal aliens.
Define a path to citizenship for well-behaved illegal aliens which puts them at the end of the line behind legal immigrants and demands tougher hoops to jump through. The idea is to penalize them for sneaking in.
NO, YOU DO NOT GET TO BRING IN YOUR WHOLE GD EXTENDED FAMILY JUST BECAUSE YOU MANAGED TO SNEAK IN AND DON'T ROB ANY BANKS or join a gang. Nor do you get welfare, education, food, routine medical care, etc. just because you're here. You EARN those PRIVILEGES by becoming a citizen. And HELL NO we're not going to print everything in your language. Learn ours or you don't drive, vote, catch an airplane, or any other of the PRIVILEGES we have.
You wanna work? Fine; get a green card.

For starters.

Correct on all above, all republican ideas in most part.
And repeal that stupid law that attracts pregnant illegal women into our country, you all know the one, 'any baby born here is automatically a citizen'. That should have been repealed long ago, no good comes from it.

I keep hearing arguments about how all the illegals just come here to work, Az. would have NEVER passed the law they did if that were true, so that excuse holds no water what so ever.
A little hint, not all illegals are nice people. Phoenix has become the kidnapping capital of this country. It's the STREET CRIME committed by the illegals that has led Az. to where they are today.

And swchandler, you'd rather I watch PBS as opposed to FOX, a government funded network as opposed to a privately funded one?
Surely you jest, if it receives government funds, then the stuff they say must be true, like if Obama says it, it must be true, pfffft.
Why don't you just ask me to watch MSNBC so I can get my wisdom from the likes of Oberman, Madcow, and Matthews? Not much differance there.
Sorry, I just can't do it, I can't be a government troll.

Bottom line, anyone who hates Arizona's law, must have to hate the Fed's law even worse, if you want to claim any kind of consistancy.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5774

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It only takes a Democratic president and Congress to make big government as sore for many. Why don't I remember the angst of these righteous Republicans during the Reagan, George H. W. Bush and George W. Bush Administrations? All of these Republican turds couldn't help spending huge tax dollars and growing big government, and ultimately dragging us into 3 Middle East wars.

nw30, you haven't a clue. How old are you? Then again, maybe you're just completely lost and gone like isobars. Why hate the American government, to include the majority of folks living here? We all have to play in the good and bad times.

And I can't believe that you would diss PBS' news and commentary programming. Regrettably, I've found in life that some folks lack a sense of worldliness, sophistication and taste, and they would rather wallow in the likes of Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck, O'Reilly, and their others of their hateful ilk.

You might not want to be a "government troll", but you don't seem to have any problem with being a "Fox News" troll and shill. That, in my opinion, doesn't warrant any notable respect.
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 1651
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

swchandler wrote:
It only takes a Democratic president and Congress to make big government as sore for many. Why don't I remember the angst of these righteous Republicans during the Reagan, George H. W. Bush and George W. Bush Administrations? All of these Republican turds couldn't help spending huge tax dollars and growing big government, and ultimately dragging us into 3 Middle East wars.

nw30, you haven't a clue. How old are you? Then again, maybe you're just completely lost and gone like isobars. Why hate the American government, to include the majority of folks living here? We all have to play in the good and bad times.

And I can't believe that you would diss PBS' news and commentary programming. Regrettably, I've found in life that some folks lack a sense of worldliness, sophistication and taste, and they would rather wallow in the likes of Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck, O'Reilly, and their others of their hateful ilk.

You might not want to be a "government troll", but you don't seem to have any problem with being a "Fox News" troll and shill. That, in my opinion, doesn't warrant any notable respect.

Oooooooooooookay, so be it, whatever. Not that I expected anything different.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3334

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The list of things the GOP suggests is of course the status quo, by and large.
The idea that these are admirable Republican inventions is seriously funny. These laws were mostly written more than a hundred years ago, and brought us to our present problem.
What the GOP and the Dems don't want to do is arrest campaign contributors who hire and actively recruit the illegals, creating the entire problem. The reason Americans don't take jobs in Mexico is because there are few employers who will take the chance on an illegal.
Arizona employers of illegals number many on the LEGISLATURE THAT WROTE THOSE LAWS.
They know there will always be a big supply of illegals if they keep jobs available to them, and arresting guys for no papers will not make a noticeable difference.
My family has had a house in Phoenix for 15 years. You read in the local paper that the crime wave is an invention of Talk Radio. Our crime is level or slightly down in Arizona.
The reason they wrote those laws is the real genuine problem of too many illegals coming to the US for all those Republican sponsored jobs.
Dem jobs, too
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feuser



Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 1395

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nw30 wrote:

...

And swchandler, you'd rather I watch PBS as opposed to FOX, a government funded network as opposed to a privately funded one?
Surely you jest, if it receives government funds, then the stuff they say must be true, like if Obama says it, it must be true, pfffft.
...


That's why the PBS and other stood so loyally behind the Bush administration who were - at least for 8 years - the very government that funded them?

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florian - ny22

http://www.windsurfing.kasail.com/
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5143

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NW suggest:
Quote:
And repeal that stupid law that attracts pregnant illegal women into our country, you all know the one, 'any baby born here is automatically a citizen'. That should have been repealed long ago, no good comes from it.


Oops, it is actually the 14th amendment to the Constitution. Oh you strict cosntructionist, here it is:
Quote:
The 14th Amendment defines citizenship this way: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.
"

Now I want you to explain how you are going to get Congress to pass an amendment to the Constitution, and then get the requisite number of states to pass it. Like I said earlier, ignorance can be readily achieved...
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 1651
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac wrote:
NW suggest:
Quote:
And repeal that stupid law that attracts pregnant illegal women into our country, you all know the one, 'any baby born here is automatically a citizen'. That should have been repealed long ago, no good comes from it.


Oops, it is actually the 14th amendment to the Constitution. Oh you strict cosntructionist, here it is:
Quote:
The 14th Amendment defines citizenship this way: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.
"

Now I want you to explain how you are going to get Congress to pass an amendment to the Constitution, and then get the requisite number of
states to pass it. Like I said earlier, ignorance can be readily achieved...

I know about that, no big deal, when written, they had no idea it would come to this, back then they were trying to grow the country out of its fledgling state.
That's what amendments are for, I'm a constitutionist, but I also know when an amendment is worthy, I like my beer, do you?
I also like borders that define our country, w/out them we've got squat.
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