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swmckay
Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 131
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 Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| peterkimball wrote: | Not sure if these ideas will help or not:
I am about 75kg.
I ride a 2008 84L JP FSW as my big board. [...]
I use a 25cm FSW MFC for 5.3 and 5.7 B&J
I use a 22cm MFC wave fin for wave riding
I can typically get planing in 18-20 mph winds with the 5.3
Comfortable pumping onto a plane in 16-18
Can dog around and catch waves at about 15.
Could plan with the 5.7 a bit earlier but not a lot better. I would rather have less planing and the manuverability of the 5.3
This is not BS. People who know me can attest to my ability to plane early on smaller sails then most. It is all technique.
In my opinion a bigger fin might be ok with the 5.7. Maybe 27cm. [...]
I use a waist harness. [...]
I use a high boom setting for lighter winds. [...]
I have my harness lines longish. [...]
I am not timid about pumping to get planing.
I think I learned to plane early, adjust my stance and adapt to modern boards by doing a lot of freestyle sailing starting in the late 90's. |
This description almost exactly matches me as well, also on Cape Cod
waters, although my MFC wave fin is a 23cm fin and my JP FSW is
a 2009 model. I agree that it's all technique. I'm a newish sailor
(5 years), but learned this technique by watching the local freestylers
and starting to learn it myself. All the freestyle guys can get planing
earlier on smaller rigs than all the rest of the sailors. It definitely starts
with that centered, upright stance and getting the weight off of the
back foot.
But what do I know? I'm a newbie.
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jingebritsen
Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3371
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Hurl
Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:52 pm Post subject: 85 liter and fins |
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| I use a 21cm up to a 28 cm on my 85. Contact me thru our club. www.sailwet.com or reply. I sail the mid-Atlantic area alot.. and your welcome to try some different fins. I have around 40. Some for sale as well. John from Va. beach Everyone has different tastes and techniques. For our area in moderate winds, A 26cm True Ames Surfgrass works well with or without weeds. In 30mph and above a 21-22 should be fine. JC
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WaterKook
Joined: 10 Apr 2000
Posts: 1713
Location: The Dude abides!!!!!
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| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:20 am Post subject: |
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I have a 2008 RRD FSW 85 and sail it from 3.7m to 5.2m with a MFC 2K 21 cm fin http://www.mauifin.com/fin_info.php?id=17
I am 75kg actually I am 165 pounds!
I watch people wait to plane with one foot in front of the front foot straps. I call that the parking break. Put your front foot in the front strap and start pumping. Bear off on a swell, chop or small wave. Most people don't get that the water movement can really help you get on a plane. Then ease your back foot into the strap. If you watch pro freestylers in marginal conditions get planing they often have the back foot in front of the rear strap. I was watching both Taty and Tonky doing this years ago. Then just before a trick they would put the back foot in the strap. Try it. It will also teach you how to be lighter on the fin and less big fin dependent.
My 2 cents 
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[Jerry's World] www.waterkook.com
www.chathamwindandtime.com |
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JRuffus
Joined: 17 Apr 2001
Posts: 293
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| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:16 am Post subject: |
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I typically run my 87litre AB+ with a 70cm techtronics blade and my old school 7 cambered 7.2 gaastra speedfoil. This seems to work really well for me, and i also use a shoter mast with a 30cm fixed carbon exension as well as a 30cm adjustable aluminum chinook base. I like the base of the sail to have alot of twist in it.
I have also found a really soft boom, one that barely fits that is at it max end rage of adjustment works well to "cadillac" out the ride and soak up and bumps in the road.
I have been using a climbing harness as i like the way the straps dig right into my sac, its a good warm up for going kiting with a seat harness.
lets see what else on yeah for footstraps I have been using an elaborate systme of zip ties zipped together they seem to be super stiff and i can get my foot in and zip em super tight then my foot never comes out.
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WaterKook
Joined: 10 Apr 2000
Posts: 1713
Location: The Dude abides!!!!!
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obxaddict
Joined: 10 Jul 2016
Posts: 58
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| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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hah  Thanks for all the input everyone. It usually signals the end of a threads life when the posts start going sideways. 
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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This one's definitely sideways, folks, so if it’s windy or the boss can see your screen, skip it. I’m just stroking my stoke until the water warms up a little bit more.
| evans wrote: | | Put your front foot in the front strap and start pumping. Bear off on a swell, chop or small wave. Most people don't get that the water movement can really help you get on a plane. Then ease your back foot into the strap. |
Sheeeeeeit on that. 
Rig up about a meter and go windsurfing, OBXdude! You asked for more planing time, not more complaining time. 86 liters in the ocean ain't Tinkertoys or curling; it's no-huddles, no-commercials, fourth-quarter, two-minute drill, Superbowl football. It's Red Bull, not yogurt; a WRX STI, not yer grandma's Buick; adrenaline, not Valium. Frequent pumping is for people much older than I, and my hairline's been receding for 40 years. I'll have plenty of time to sail underpowered after I turn 80 ... but I still won't because it's too much freaking work (and my planing time will REALLY be important then). Every minute spent pumping (or slogging) is a minute of planing lost, never to be recovered. This ain't putzin' to church in said Buick with Grandma at the wheel; it's European off-road autocross with yer headlights pointing where yer going only about half the time. Tiptoe through the tulips, my ass; mow them damn posies down and plow some furrows for the next crop.
Of course, efficiency techniques are important when the wind dies and ya get caught downwind. They're important when one's main focus is classic barely-powered DTL wave sailing and ya gotta get back upwind to the head of the lineup. And they're (apparently) important when learning freestyle tricks aided by the tiniest sail one can plane on. But just as I've never understood deliberately going into a gunfight carrying only a knife, I’ve also never understood deliberately going windsurfing on a 4.2 or 4.7 in 5.2 wind.
Yet I see it every day, in several types of sailors including:
1. A freestyle bud whose sole objective is to plane once per reach.
2. Newby highwinders who don’t yet trust their gear or their skills.
3. Longtime sailors who just want to plane, who aren’t into excitement.
4. People who use gravity (waves, swell) more than wind for their primary motive power.
5. Those GD little efficient one-percenter freaks who make sailing way underpowered look sooooo easy.
#1 wastes half his TOW on slogging to make his tricks a little easier. That’s his call and he’s sticking to it.
#2 is probably our OBX OP. That’s easy to fix; just rig bigger and learn to manage being overpowered. Soon “overpowered” becomes “powered juuuust right”, and you’ll still have plenty of practice slogging and pumping.
#3 and #4, as #1, are doing their own thing, by choice.
#5 is simply a far better sailor than I, or most other people, will ever be. More power -- in a different sense -- to them.
HOWEVER, when the wind backs off, or a high-g maneuver scrubs off speed (spray = lost kinetic energy), or they don’t accelerate through their jibes, or they land an off-wind jump pointing 45 degrees upwind because that’s the way they want to go, or they simply screw up and lose their plane, there they go again ... pumping and ooching and worrying about foot and hand placement and weighting and depleting precious ATP from their muscles and marveling at how efficient they’re being.
Valid choice? Sure, but not everybody’s cup of tea, and by the time they’re planing again the guy on the 5.2 is already 200 yards away and has slashed 6 hard turns and pulled off two planing tricks … another valid choice I see every single day. If the efficiency expert is in a 4.7 fighter aircraft and his opponent is in a 5.2 fighter, the average former is a dead man, literally. Lost kinetic energy must be replaced by horsepower whether it’s in an F-16 or an 86-liter board, a bigger sail => quicker KE replacement, a bigger sail => greater downwind drag, and a bigger fin provides more (upwind) lift to oppose that increased drag. If you hit the oversized wall Craig warned you about, you’ll know it; it feels very cumbersome, sluggish, imbalanced, nose heavy, or at the very least produces too much high-speed tailwalking … which beats the hell out of extensive pumping, IMO.
Four of us spent a long evening session on the water together last summer, each of us rigged absolutely perfectly. All of us were planing much or most of the time -- one 100% of the time -- and all were performing at their peaks. None of us BAFs, so we stayed a couple of hundred yards apart so everyone had plenty of room to cut loose without interference. We were hip deep in a steady-wind groove we hadn’t experienced in weeks, ripping the smooth swell into flying spray while 100 other sailors rode their lawn chairs because their clock said it was time to eat supper despite the hands-down best wind of the month, let alone the day. Each of us presumed were all on about the same sail size because we were all sailing so well.
As we walked ashore in the dark, we were surprised how wrong that presumption was. There were a 4.2, two 5.2s, and a 6.2, and board and rider size had little to do with it. The only two who had to slog or pump at all were the 140-pound efficiency expert on the 4.2 and the oversized lummox on the 5.2. The middle-weight guy was on the 6.2, was never overpowered OR underpowered, and was carving at least as hard as -- and more often than -- any of the others.
Mike \m/
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WaterKook
Joined: 10 Apr 2000
Posts: 1713
Location: The Dude abides!!!!!
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| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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Mike you must be a Gorge sailor. The most inefficient sailors on the planet. 
I see them every year when I go down to Baja. The truth is most people are sailing overpowered. It takes x amount of power to get planning and less power once you are out of the hole and up on a plane. Get in a boat and punch it. Once on a plane you back off the throttle so you are not just wasting fuel.
Anyway you can sail how ever you want. I could care less. 
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[Jerry's World] www.waterkook.com
www.chathamwindandtime.com |
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DanWeiss
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 2296
Location: Connecticut, USA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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Y'all can be your own judge, but pumping to a plane works. I find it very difficult to rig bigger when I'm stuck in a lull. Sometimes we simply run out of gear options.
There is no debate to be had. Proper pumping technique is the fastest way to plane on absolutely every board except -possibly- huge shortboards with huge sails. Then it's possible for a different technique advocated by Tinho to get more people planing more easily. Aside from that, every advanced to pro-level windsurfer knows that you must point the board downwind to maximize the effect that pumping for all the reasons Jerry Evans described and for one he didn't.
Pumping from a virtual stand still is most effective when the wind's angle of attack is larger (i.e., downwind/broad reach) rather than smaller (a beam or close reach). This is because we are not yet experiencing great flow over the sail but we are working our way to that point. Pointing the board downwind reduces the amount of waisted energy caused by leeway. Of course, most of us have experienced a situation where we pump to a plane on a FW or large freeride without pointing downwind. This only demonstrates how effective and efficient a high aspect ratio planing surface can be -especially when paired with a very powerful fin. But I can almost promise that this gear will still come up to a plane faster and more powerfully when pointed downwind and pumped.
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