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Flaka before Vulcan?
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Joined: 03 Mar 2009
Posts: 292

PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

boardsurfr wrote:
Thanks haterrater, great detailed reply. I went back to the Tricktionary and came to the conclusion that the Grubby rather than the Flaka is what I was looking for - it has the downwind jump followed by a Flaka ending, if I understand that correctly. I'm not to concerned about the backwinded ending after 3 (soon 4) ABK camps and lots of heli tacks. I have no clue about the jumps, though.

My plan was to go for the speed loop first, since everyone says it's so easy, and for the Gecko if we get the usual light wind days. But your suggestion to try a different moves makes a lot of sense - some stuff others find hard I get on the first try, while other supposedly easy stuff is very hard for me. If we get a few good windy days, I'll try the pop-and-slide both downwind and into the wind. That is, if I can figure the pop out Smile.

sounds good! hodad.andy's comments about varying the tricks is a good thing. Geckos, helitacks, and upwind 360s in the straps when it's marginal; spin loops when OP'ed and choppy; downwind 360s when OP'ed and slick; sliding tricks (grubby, vulcan/spock) when everything is just right and the water is flat.... and don't forget to work on your fast tacks as well!
I love it when the wind is gusty and the water conditions are varied - it makes everything so much more of a playground when you allow yourself to vary your tricks/turns according to the patterns in the conditions. Eventually you will even find how to make the headers, lifts, gusts and lulls to work for you (for instance, it is easier to do a spin loop when you are going into a lift because your standard course becomes a deeper reach just by the wind shift; a vulcan will be easier going into a header because the pressure will disappear when you pop, as opposed to filling the sail up when you are getting ready to pop....).
I was having trouble this summer with my freestyle because I was coming off an injury, so I started working on the boomerang and sailbody360s and stuff - I ended up having a blast and the oldschool stuff is still real stylish, if not moreso, than the newschool tricks. KEEP IT UP!

And thanks kevinkan for the flaka tips!
-the h.r. dept.
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Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 1243

PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great discussion, guys! We seem to have a consensus that the Vulcan is usually the first trick to learn, and that is is very hard to learn - taking anywhere from 6 months (if you get to sail a lot) to years.
hodad.andy wrote:
Also try Andy Brandt's "Piledriver"
Funny you mention it - that's the last trick that Andy told me to do during the Cape Cod camp last fall. I tried it just a few times, but will definitely get back to it.
hodad.andy wrote:
now the grubby is kind of a decent starting point... I didn't try any port grubbys this time, but have in the past and they felt pretty reasonable and less scary than vulcans

Will definitely put Grubbys high on the list of things to try. Thanks for the "STRAIGHT downwind" hint.
I find it interesting that haterrater has been trying more than three months on the Grubby, after learning Vulcans and Spocks in a comparably short time. I'll take it as a case in point to try different things.

Here's another argument for Grubbys: they look like a lot of fun on videos (bright smiles from the pros on the Tricktionary DVD). In contrast, Andy Brandt described the Vulcan as hard to learn, but little fun Sad - you just have to learn it to get to more fun stuff like Spocks. Have to say, that did not increase my motivation to learn the Vulcan! I'm planning to give him a hard time about that when I see him next month Smile. (I just saw him on the beach cam in Bonaire, where it's blowing 22 knots - I'm soooo jealous!)
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Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 977
Location: Formerly Cape Hatteras, now Burlington, VT!

PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The freestyle learning curve is certainly steep. The hardest part of freestyle is that you're trying to control the rig from really weird, new orientations. Take the end of a spock for example- the board is moving backwards, you're switchstance and in the straps with all of your weight on your front foot, and you're on the lee side of the sail trying to do a helitack. If that doesn't count as "abnormal" I don't know what does!

One thing that I find exceptionally helpful is skate sailing. It's super accessible- 5 mph of wind and a deserted parking lot or street and you're good to go! Suddenly, there's no 15 knot minimum, or even body of water, necessary to practice the moves.

The techniques are different, for sure, but skate sailing is a great tool to start wrapping your head around the sail handling skills and different sensations that come with the freestyle stuff. For example, going backwards/switchstance/on the lee side of the sail is easy to do- you just get on the board facing the wind, pick up the sail, and sheet out towards the nose. Voila! You now know how it feels to be halfway through a spock, with out having to set up, pop, spin, jibe the sail, and land sliding backwards, all without falling. So when you finally do start landing the vulcans, you'll be way more prepared for what's to come. Good stuff!
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Joined: 21 Jul 2000
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 3:01 pm    Post subject: Smiley vulcans Reply with quote

Interesting comment about smiley grubbies and grouchy vulcans. Vulcans are obviously the stepping stone a lot (perhaps not grubbies per se) of downwind rotation freestyle tricks, like the spock. I think once you have got the vulcan and start working on other tricks, the vulcan almost becomes a failure to execute a spock, say, or 540, or even a utility move (like a jybe). Maybe thats why once people learn vulcans and progress to working on spocks, vulcans just don't seem to have much appeal anymore. I dunno, just hypothesizing.

Interesting perspective too Kevin on the flakas. Will have to keep that in mind as I continue my floundering on that trick.

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