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techno900
Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4166
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 Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:02 am Post subject: |
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For Mac -
I wonder where the world would be today if oil and the resulting industrialization had not happened.
Certainly, oil has a negative side, but compare that to where we are today by utilizing this natural resource, which I predict will continue to serve as a valuable resource for 100's of years in the future, especially with the decline of nuclear. Wind, hydro, thermal and solar simply can't cut it. |
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mrgybe
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 5181
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| Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:03 am Post subject: |
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Clearly I will have to take this a little more slowly. NW cited a news report which said:
| nw30 wrote: | | Child miners aged four living a hell on Earth so YOU can drive an electric car: Sky News investigated the Katanga mines and found Dorsen, 8, and Monica, 4. The pair were working in the vast mines of the Democratic Republic of Congo.They are two of the 40,000 children working daily in the mines, checking rocks for cobalt |
To which Berkeley responded:
| mac wrote: | | What causes this is the unfettered market, which transfers costs to others wherever it can. You can find similar stories associated with oil production in Nigeria..... |
So, for the second time, please provide a citation which supports your assertion that, in Nigerian oil production, there are "similar stories" of child exploitation to the ones NW was citing. Thank you. |
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real-human
Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 14893
Location: on earth
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| Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:14 am Post subject: |
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| techno900 wrote: | For Mac -
I wonder where the world would be today if oil and the resulting industrialization had not happened.
Certainly, oil has a negative side, but compare that to where we are today by utilizing this natural resource, which I predict will continue to serve as a valuable resource for 100's of years in the future, especially with the decline of nuclear. Wind, hydro, thermal and solar simply can't cut it. |
Simple we would be using an electric car, do you realize cities and such had electric vehicles trollies.... That cheap oil destroyed that market....
resulting industrialization is still run of electric motors, very few corporations work with a gas engine driving machines. They are electric motors in milling machines, injection molders, presses, welders, conveyors, and on and on.
I wonder where the world would be today if the wheel had not been invented and the resulting industrialization had not happened.
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when good people stay silent the right wing are the only ones heard. |
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real-human
Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 14893
Location: on earth
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| Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:20 am Post subject: |
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| mrgybe wrote: | Clearly I will have to take this a little more slowly. NW cited a news report which said:
| nw30 wrote: | | Child miners aged four living a hell on Earth so YOU can drive an electric car: Sky News investigated the Katanga mines and found Dorsen, 8, and Monica, 4. The pair were working in the vast mines of the Democratic Republic of Congo.They are two of the 40,000 children working daily in the mines, checking rocks for cobalt |
To which Berkeley responded:
| mac wrote: | | What causes this is the unfettered market, which transfers costs to others wherever it can. You can find similar stories associated with oil production in Nigeria..... |
So, for the second time, please provide a citation which supports your assertion that, in Nigerian oil production, there are "similar stories" of child exploitation to the ones NW was citing. Thank you. |
Idiot the work and mines have been there for a heck of a long time so that you can have your copper pennies.. again way about your intellect but cobalt is a by product of mining copper and nickel. in general, those mines produce 97% copper and nickel and at the same time comes out 3% cobalt.
They have been there for making our military weapons for a heck of a long time, and our pennies. Just ask Ivanka and what she was paying children.
Obviously, those mines in question need to be upgraded to have modern machines to remove children from mining.
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when good people stay silent the right wing are the only ones heard. |
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boggsman1
Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 9123
Location: at a computer
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| Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| techno900 wrote: | For Mac -
I wonder where the world would be today if oil and the resulting industrialization had not happened.
Certainly, oil has a negative side, but compare that to where we are today by utilizing this natural resource, which I predict will continue to serve as a valuable resource for 100's of years in the future, especially with the decline of nuclear. Wind, hydro, thermal and solar simply can't cut it. |
I'm glad Elon Musk isn't reading your posts...California is leading the way in the US as we move away from gasoline powered autos. Germany, and many other industrialized nations are way ahead of the US, but CA is aiming to be gas free by 2030... I was on a road ride Friday night and was blown away by how many e-cars are on the road, and we are just getting started. As soon as the Model 3 comes out, the competition will really explode. |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17752
Location: Berkeley, California
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| Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| mrgybe wrote: | Clearly I will have to take this a little more slowly. NW cited a news report which said:
| nw30 wrote: | | Child miners aged four living a hell on Earth so YOU can drive an electric car: Sky News investigated the Katanga mines and found Dorsen, 8, and Monica, 4. The pair were working in the vast mines of the Democratic Republic of Congo.They are two of the 40,000 children working daily in the mines, checking rocks for cobalt |
To which Berkeley responded:
| mac wrote: | | What causes this is the unfettered market, which transfers costs to others wherever it can. You can find similar stories associated with oil production in Nigeria..... |
So, for the second time, please provide a citation which supports your assertion that, in Nigerian oil production, there are "similar stories" of child exploitation to the ones NW was citing. Thank you. |
It must be cherry-picking time in Virginia again. Clearly children in Nigeria (and other locations) are exposed to hellish landscapes due to oil and mineral development, and to toxics from the decades of oil spills. But if you move the goal posts, and claim that this only matters if the children work in the mines....utter nonsense. Pick those cherries.
To Techno--I have not argued that oil or industrialization is all bad, you must be climbing the cherry trees in Virginia with mrgybe. But it is far past time to look at the externalities that these practices cause, and either regulate those impacts or capture the costs in the price of the products. |
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techno900
Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4166
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| Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:35 am Post subject: |
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baja said: | Quote: | | Simple we would be using an electric car, do you realize cities and such had electric vehicles trollies.... That cheap oil destroyed that market.... |
I wonder where the electric trollies got their power? Coal, oil? Even an electric world can be dirty.
If every car in the country was electric, I wonder what that would do to the demand on the grid and power production capabilities? Of course, that is a long time away, so I doubt anyone is currently concerned. |
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mrgybe
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 5181
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| Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:40 am Post subject: |
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The complete quote. Clearly referring to worker abuses, not general living conditions (about which he knows nothing that can't be found on Wikipedia).
| mac wrote: | | What causes this [referring to NW's child exploitation article] is the unfettered market, which transfers costs to others wherever it can. You can find similar stories associated with oil production in Nigeria, coal mining in multiple locations, and precious metal mining in South America, to just name a few. What prevents it is regulation and unionization--both reflexively opposed by conservatives--because those prevent the wholesale transfer of costs to the public and the abuse of workers. |
More sloppy, ill informed, language to prop up his biases. |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17752
Location: Berkeley, California
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| Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:05 am Post subject: |
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| All that's left in August is the pits, as we can see. |
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mrgybe
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 5181
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| Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| boggsman1 wrote: | | I'm glad Elon Musk isn't reading your posts...California is leading the way in the US as we move away from gasoline powered autos. |
"Moving away" is exactly right. Moving the pollutants away from your back yard to the places where the minerals are mined and the electricity is produced. But hey, that "ZERO-CO2" license plate does look cool to the hopelessly naive. BTW, congratulations to all in your neck of the woods on the immediate dismissal by Google of the bigoted engineer that was foolish enough to express his views to a small group of colleagues. The VP of Diversity, Integrity and Governance (hilarious!) had it right............diversity doesn't extend to opinions that liberals don't like. |
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