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KGB-NP
Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 2856
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 Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| mac wrote: | | Expect to read postings about how toxic all of that stuff is. It's really about money, market share, and who pays for politicians. |
Hmmm, sounds like a new breed of deniers. Thank goodness there's organizations like SVTC to help monitor the industry and inform those with their head in the sand. Let's send your children to those mines so we can all enjoy our western lives of privilege, and see how you change your tune then.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/energy/2014/11/141111-solar-panel-manufacturing-sustainability-ranking/ |
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swchandler
Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10588
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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All the more need for prudent regulations.
But wait, Donald Trump and his corporate backers, and their shrill political shills want to broadly deregulate and remove any practical restrictions on their production and profiteering.
Why are we going the wrong way and ignoring the obvious?
Oh, profit today, and piss on innovation and leadership into the future. Seems to me to be an empty headed lunge into the future that hurts America over time. |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17747
Location: Berkeley, California
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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| NP--in this country, the health risks are associated with smoking, diet--and diesel emissions. |
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KGB-NP
Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 2856
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 5:50 am Post subject: |
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| mac wrote: | | NP--in this country, the health risks are associated with smoking, diet--and diesel emissions. |
Gee really, what a coincidence, here too. So then you turn a blind eye to what is outlined in this article, and make back handed insults about gnashing of teeth, and dismiss the issues associated with this industry? I hate to tell you, but when money is involved, it is human nature, greed specifically, to not do the "right" thing. So ya, it is about money, and politics as this article and many others reveal.
Now before you feel the urge to label myself or others as knuckle draggers, fur coats, or whatever. I'm pretty sure we'd all agree there are some great benefits to solar, etc., but to dismiss that they have some very serious negative impacts, whether here or abroad where manufacturing and mining takes place, is denial.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/the-darker-side-of-solar-power/article24649804/ |
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mrgybe
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 5180
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 9:59 am Post subject: |
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| Good article. Life is way more complex than some can comprehend or are willing to acknowledge. |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17747
Location: Berkeley, California
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| NP wrote: | | mac wrote: | | NP--in this country, the health risks are associated with smoking, diet--and diesel emissions. |
Gee really, what a coincidence, here too. So then you turn a blind eye to what is outlined in this article, and make back handed insults about gnashing of teeth, and dismiss the issues associated with this industry? I hate to tell you, but when money is involved, it is human nature, greed specifically, to not do the "right" thing. So ya, it is about money, and politics as this article and many others reveal.
Now before you feel the urge to label myself or others as knuckle draggers, fur coats, or whatever. I'm pretty sure we'd all agree there are some great benefits to solar, etc., but to dismiss that they have some very serious negative impacts, whether here or abroad where manufacturing and mining takes place, is denial.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/the-darker-side-of-solar-power/article24649804/ |
Sigh. When a rather shallow article draws praise from gybe you should feel slimed.
There is no doubt that resource extraction--all kinds--in countries with weak regulations poses risks to workers and the landscape. That includes petroleum and coal tar--perhaps one should look at the ravaged landscapes in Canada and Nigeria.
I posted here information about the relative health risks of solar mining and use of petroleum products. You can believe carbon industry talking points, or facts. Your choice.
http://www.circleofblue.org/2010/world/tar-sands-oil-production-is-an-industrial-bonanza-poses-major-water-use-challenges/ |
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LHDR
Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 528
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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NP, good articles. Life is way more complex than some can comprehend or are willing to acknowledge. I think it is not justified to assume that solar energy proponents are in denial and would like to "dismiss serious negative impacts". The opposite is more likely to be true, as mac and swchandler are pointing out.
In addition to this, is there another point you are making? For example, that solar power is always going to be the worse alternative because construction of solar power plants and batteries will always be dirtier than production of fossil fuels and their power plants? That would be an important point. Or that we need improved regulation of mining and manufacturing all things solar and then it is the method of choice?
Finally, I think fossil fuel people emphasizing pollution associated with solar power is like Saudi Arabia donating $100 million to the Women Entrepreneurs Fund first proposed by Ivanka Trump. Does Saudi Arabia all of the sudden care about equal opportunity for women, or is it something else they have in mind? |
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mrgybe
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 5180
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| You appear to be missing the point. Those of us who are sufficiently informed know that, absent any unforeseen breakthrough, carbon energy will dominate for the foreseeable future. We also know that claims of "clean energy' are bogus. Renewable energy sources have their toxic downsides just as carbon energy does. However, carbon dependent power plants don't need back up. Wind and solar facilities always do. So, in those "clean" plants, not only do we get the toxicity associated with the renewable energy source, we also get the carbon toxicity. A double whammy. Acknowledgement of these downsides pale into insignificance compared to the sanctimonious condemnation of the oil and gas industry, of the sort we see here routinely. I believe that is what NP is pointing out. I agree with him. |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17747
Location: Berkeley, California
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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You appear to be missing the point. Diverting some energy needs away from carbon based energy sources--to renewables and conservation--reduce CO2 emissions and warming. Without causing us to wear sackcloth. Good regulations protect us from the health impacts of any industry. The oil industry is behind most of Trump's deregulatory fervor.
When compared impartially, partially burned hydrocarbons are a much greater health risk than well regulated mining byproducts. |
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mrgybe
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 5180
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| mac wrote: | | You appear to be missing the point. Diverting some energy needs away from carbon based energy sources--to renewables and conservation--reduce CO2 emissions and warming. |
The largest use of renewables on the planet, by a mile, is wood, dung and biomass used for cooking and heating by about 3 billion people in the 3rd world. 4 million people die prematurely every year from inhaling the particulates. That's why governments in those countries are pushing hard for LPG (gasp!!!.....a hydrocarbon). Not easy to understand when one has never set foot in the third world. Oh, and BTW, over 60% of the drop in CO2 emissions in this country over the past several years, is attributable to the switch to natural gas (gasp!!..........a hydrocarbon). The real potential for large scale pollution and CO2 reduction globally, lies with hydrocarbons. |
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