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techno900
Joined: 28 Mar 2001 Posts: 4161
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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Agreed, there has always been migration by both animals and humans from the beginning of time, due to drought, flooding, storms, famine, and over population. Nothing new that I can see other than it will continue to increase as the population increases.
Your earlier post of: Quote: | As I said, population growth makes it worse. But perhaps half of those on the move are on the move because of climate change, and it will get much worse. |
"perhaps half"?? That's a really, really BIG perhaps. |
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nw30
Joined: 21 Dec 2008 Posts: 6485 Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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mac wrote: | techno900 wrote: | Mac,
At the end of the article you posted:
Quote: | Conclusions
In this column we have focused on the potential impact of growing average temperatures on rural-urban and international migration. We found that in very poor countries, warming implies less emigration. Rural populations may be stuck in deeper poverty with fewer resources to migrate. In contrast, in countries where income is not as low, lower agricultural productivity increases the incentives to migrate, producing higher emigration rates. Through these different responses temperature changes may contribute to a divergence of income and opportunities between very poor and middle-income countries. Finally, a future of increased migrations to Europe or to the US driven by global warming is not a scenario supported by our analysis. |
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Don't take the quote out of context. It says immigration to Europe and the United States. Several of the articles conclude that temperature related migration is mostly fairly local. In Syria it started by moving to the cities, where there weren't enough jobs. The primary driver towards Europe is the violence in the Middle East--but most of the migrants stay somewhere in the Middle East.
We are fools--and NW is proud to be one--if we think that the disruption of stability in populations in other countries does not threaten us. |
It looks like you are learning how to walk backwards, good, keep it up. |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999 Posts: 17747 Location: Berkeley, California
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mrgybe
Joined: 01 Jul 2008 Posts: 5180
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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techno900 wrote: | Agreed, there has always been migration by both animals and humans from the beginning of time, due to drought, flooding, storms, famine, and over population. Nothing new that I can see other than it will continue to increase as the population increases.
Your earlier post of: Quote: | As I said, population growth makes it worse. But perhaps half of those on the move are on the move because of climate change, and it will get much worse. |
"perhaps half"?? That's a really, really BIG perhaps. |
If the roles were reversed, this is where he would be demanding peer reviewed studies. Complete conjecture........or as they would say in GT's neck of the woods, total bollocks........postulated solely to reinforce his own biases and without any credible support. |
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mrgybe
Joined: 01 Jul 2008 Posts: 5180
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Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 12:10 am Post subject: |
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Anyone who bothered to look at the IEA item cited above will see the stunning revelation that wind and solar now are a fraction of the 1.3% that "other renewables" provide towards global power needs. Congratulations President Obama. No wonder that "big carbon", which produces over 80% of the world's power, has a "massive lobbying effort" (albeit mythical) to counter this insignificant threat. They must be trembling in their boots. |
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MalibuGuru
Joined: 11 Nov 1993 Posts: 9300
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Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 2:46 am Post subject: |
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Mac can look forward to oil draining into our rivers and oceans, traffic jam reductions due to 20 million deportations, and his own reeducation under TRUMP! |
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GURGLETROUSERS
Joined: 30 Dec 2009 Posts: 2643
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Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 4:56 am Post subject: |
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Simply can't let this pass-
Quote.- 'There are multiple studies that show that CULTURE is a strong glue that binds people and their communities...'
Talk about an about face! It is not the majority of our countrymen who need to be instructed how we should FEEL about being 'glued' to our community, and cultural values. It is INSTINCTIVE (we call it patriotism) as is the need to preserve it in trust to pass on to future generations.
'Says it all' you sneeringly stated after my previous defence of precisely those values you ridiculed, yet now dare to quote as justification for some other hole you seem to dug yourself into! Yet you wonder why, in the eyes of many, you have lost credibility on this forum.
Your latest claim that perhaps half of the Middle Eastern mass migration into Europe (along with their alien cultural values) is a fleeing from global warming , amply reinforces your loss of credibility.
'Bollocks' indeed! A little less Googling of talking heads, and a little more insight into basic human nature is required. |
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J64TWB
Joined: 24 Dec 2013 Posts: 1685
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Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:35 am Post subject: |
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Gybe, 42% of Denmarks electricity comes from wind. 42%! Who is the fool? |
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mrgybe
Joined: 01 Jul 2008 Posts: 5180
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Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:42 am Post subject: |
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Denmark. Great example. Thank you.
May 13, 2016. The Danish government said on Friday it wanted to scrap plans to build five offshore wind farms as their output would become too expensive for consumers. "Since 2012 when we reached the political agreement, the cost of our renewable policy has increased dramatically," said Lars Christian Lilleholt, energy minister in Denmark's Liberal party government. We can't accept this, as the private sector and households are paying far too much. Denmark's renewable policy has turned out to be too expensive," he said.
Denmark produced more than 40 percent of its electricity from wind power last year, a world record, and it has a goal of increasing this share to 50 percent by 2020. Subsidies for wind power producers had to increase as power prices fell sharply since 2012, and producers had to get more money to make production profitable."
http://www.reuters.com/article/windfarm-denmark-idUSL5N18A2V8
Perhaps this is the result of the mythical "massive lobbying effort" by "big carbon"? |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999 Posts: 17747 Location: Berkeley, California
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Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:11 am Post subject: |
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Oh dear, the post truth world is shelling me. A few facts, which probably won't make it through the bubble.
1. Big carbon lobbying efforts against the stimulus bill: Oil and gas lobbying increased from $132 million in 2008 to $154 million in 2009. NYT 2-2-10. Some of the details: http://senate.ucsd.edu/media/206150/lobby_spend_report__april.pdf including $27 million by Exxon alone in 2015. Overall, energy groups spent over $500 million lobbying in 2009, with the stimulus bill the main focus and oil and gas and electricity utilities accounting for most of the spending. But the stimulus went through, and has had an effect on both employment and renewable energy. From the Hill: "From 2008 to 2010, for example, wind power production increased by 60% in the United States. The stimulus also created 720,000 jobs in the green energy sector."
Let's wet our panties over 700 carrier jobs, saved with--gasp--massive subsidies.
2. From the Globalist Quiz in my local newspaper yesterday, "About an eighth of all renwable the subsidies worldwide (the number is $18 billion) came from the United States. capacity around the world is growing at a faster rate than subsidies." You can get various estimates for how we subsidize fossil fuels, as well as ample spin from mrgybe. There is no doubt that investing in research on renewables led to losses--about $500 million--as well as dramatic increases in the feasibility of renewable energy. Let's see, how many of the pallets of money sent to Iraq without accounting by the Bushies was that?
3. Refugees from Syria. According to the UN agency that tries to account for this, 4.8 million refugees have left Syria, and 6.6 million have been displaced but remain within Syria. About 1 million of them have tried to get into Europe. In 2007, the numbers for Iraq were 2 million who left the country and 1.7 million displaced within the country. In Somalia, 1/4 of the population has been displaced by violence and drought.
4. Climate disasters, which are partly natural and partly exacerbated by global warming (is the worst drought in Syria in 900 years really a natural phenomenon?) have displaced an average of 26.4 million people a year since 2008.
And you folks think it is all a myth? Your critical thinking skills are a myth. |
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