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mrgybe
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 5180
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 Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| swchandler wrote: | | I don't buy the simplistic talking points and BS about reducing our dependency on foreign oil by eagerly raping and developing our reserves. |
The Ayatollahs are grateful for your support. Those RPGs and plastic explosives aren't cheap.
| swchandler wrote: | | Lastly, given the fact that crude oil and many refined oil products are international commodities where the price is driven by market demand and controlled production, development of ANWR or any other sources of oil will not result in lower prices at the pump. |
You're absolutely right. The massive drop in gas prices over the past months has nothing to do with increased production. We all know the tooth fairy made it happen.
"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - Martin Luther King, Jr. |
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mrgybe
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 5180
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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| boggsman1 wrote: | | Mr G...just a tidbit of info, nothing more. Apple is worth $685 B today, and Exxon $369B....pretty astonishing. The iPhone ASP in q4 was $689...an amazingly high number for a phone, also about the same amount of money that the average family is saving annualy on fuel costs. |
Time for a windfall profits tax? Where's Peanut Carter? |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17747
Location: Berkeley, California
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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Hubris, again:
| Quote: | | You're absolutely right. The massive drop in gas prices over the past months has nothing to do with increased production. We all know the tooth fairy made it happen. |
Of course, anyone paying attention has noticed that US demand, highest in the world, has flattened and dropped. Some due to the recession, some due to that commie in the White House who required more efficient cars and encouraged insulation. How dare he!
Of course groups like the Heritage Institute got it right. They just knew that would hammer the consumer: http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2012/12/cap-and-trade-for-cars-means-higher-prices-and-less-choice-for-car-buyers
Being right only matters to those who pay attention to facts. |
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swchandler
Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10588
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:25 am Post subject: |
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| Never had kids, and never worked for the government. |
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swchandler
Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10588
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:07 am Post subject: |
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mrgybe, maybe you can explain to us why the international price of crude oil is falling, and why are the Saudis not cutting back on production to maintain higher crude oil pricing. Please enlighten us.
Regarding domestic and North American oil production, I serious doubt that oil companies would willing flood the market with over production to purposely cut the price of gasoline. It's not their style. What's happening now isn't of their doing. However, I'm sure that cheap crude oil right now greatly affects their oil exploration and development strategies.
Seems to me that keeping our potential reserves untapped at this time is a wise investment for the future. No doubt, it might be considered to be a more conservative approach to the situation. |
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boggsman1
Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 9120
Location: at a computer
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:29 am Post subject: |
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| Chandler...the Saudis are not cutting back becuase they can crush many producers like Venezuala, Mexico, or Nigeria, and at the same time squelch the projects in North America that are relatively expensive. The oil men only point to the worlds increased production when pointing to reasons for falling prices, but the US and China (30% of daily crude demand ) are down over 4,000,000 barrels/day from the recent demand peak during the early 2000's credit bubble. So the gap between supply and demand widens as countries like Iraq goes from 2.7mm barrels/day to 4.5 mm barrels/day, and China goes from 10% GDP to 6% GDP. |
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techno900
Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4161
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:52 am Post subject: |
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boggs, you nailed it.
So with demand low, plus an over supply of oil, few producers will be drilling new wells, at least not until the price per barrel goes up. This is what the Saudis are counting on. They want to stall production worldwide so that the supply diminishes, demand increases, prices go up and they are in the cat bird seat again.
Now IS the time to be looking for reserves, securing new leases, building pipelines, wading through the government bureaucracy. If we wait until the next oil shortage, it takes too long to draw a new barrel out of the ground.
I think the Saudis are counting on us to sit on our asses and do nothing because of the low price of oil. Why should we play their game? |
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coboardhead
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 4303
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:16 am Post subject: |
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Or...we could keep the demand low by adding a tax on gasoline that we use to pay down our debt. The decreased demand maybe will keep prices lower. In the meantime, our reduced debt will make the dollar stronger.
The risk of lower prices is we increase our consumption. I am looking at replacing my old car this year. Fuel mileage is less of a consideration...now. Light truck sales are up...when will we ever learn. |
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coboardhead
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 4303
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:17 am Post subject: |
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Or...we could keep the demand low by adding a tax on gasoline that we use to pay down our debt. The decreased demand maybe will keep prices lower. In the meantime, our reduced debt will make the dollar stronger.
The risk of lower prices is we increase our consumption. I am looking at replacing my old car this year. Fuel mileage is less of a consideration...now. Light truck sales are up...when will we ever learn. |
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mrgybe
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 5180
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| boggsman1 wrote: | | Chandler...the Saudis are not cutting back becuase they can crush many producers like Venezuala, Mexico, or Nigeria, and at the same time squelch the projects in North America that are relatively expensive. |
Boggsy, I tremble in awe of your vast knowledge of the oil business...... your clients should tremble too! Nigeria and Venezuela are fellow members of OPEC. If the Saudis are trying to crush them, I doubt they would let you in on that fact. The Saudis are refusing to cut production because they believe their cash reserves can outlast those of North American producers. And why you ask? Because the 5 million extra barrels (and growing) that North American producers have brought to market in just 5 years, has lowered prices and undermined the dominance of Saudi Arabia. Most sensible Americans would think that was a good thing.
| boggsman1 wrote: | | The oil men only point to the worlds increased production when pointing to reasons for falling prices |
Don't be silly. Of course they don't. They do, however, point to the undoubted pricing and geopolitical impact of higher US production when someone asserts that higher production from ANWR or elsewhere will have no impact on pump prices. Of course it will.........and it will strengthen the US internationally. Liberals whine about sending troops to defend oil overseas, but refuse to allow US companies to extract our own oil from a place that they, and no one else visits. |
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