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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 1309

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mac. I'm not trying to draw things out, and I largely accept what you say, but most of us (who are sane) realize that modeling has predicted an increase in the number and intensity of extreme events which we MAY be seeing. (Driven by warming oceans -if that is happening - agreed.)

So I'm pleased to hear you disown (I think you are) those who are jumping the gun, and are positively linking each and every extreme weather event nowadays to a modeling probability only, and presenting it as indisputable fact of global warning phenomena.

You did say, in a previous response, 'don't trust tyhe models for prediction,' a conclusion which most of us long ago came to. (Too many false certainties 'screamed' at us.) So it is unsurprising that normal moderates, with no axe to grind, get angry with unvalid claims . (Every modern extreme event proof of the prediction.)

A little more objectivity on the part of the more excitable warming element would be welcome, not to say novel, and would go a long way to winning over converts .
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5005

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GT--here in the United States, conservatives play hard ball-death threats and lies are common--and it pisses off scientists with integrity. I heard one of those threatened, Steven Schneider, now deceased, speak on the matter. So from what I see, while there may be some alarmism on the green side, it is coming from concern for the consequences and an excess of caution, not from the hateful stuff coming from the right. The clipping of the temperature record, and the constant reposting of it by idiots like NW who think its news every time someone comments about it, or that it is meaningful--because they have no conception of science--is bad enough. But while a bit dated, this article makes my point:

Quote:
Climate scientists in the US say police inaction has left them defenceless in the face of a torrent of death threats and hate mail, leaving them fearing for their lives and one to contemplate arming himself with a handgun.

The scientists say the threats have increased since the furore over leaked emails from the University of East Anglia began last November, and a sample of the hate mail sent in recent months and seen by the Guardian reveals the scale and vitriolic tone of the abuse.

The scientists revealed they have been told to "go gargle razor blades" and have been described as "Nazi climate murderers". Some emails have been sent to them without any attempt by the sender to disguise their identity. Even though the scientists have received advice from the FBI, the local police say they are not able to act due to the near-total tolerance of "freedom of speech" in the US.

The problem appears less severe in the UK but, Professor Phil Jones, the UEA scientist at the centre of the hacked email controversy, revealed in February he had been receiving two death threats a week and had contemplated suicide. "People said I should go and kill myself," he said. "They said that they knew where I lived. They were coming from all over the world." The third and final independent review into the issues raised by the hacked UEA emails is due to be published on Wednesday when Sir Muir Russell presents his panel's conclusions.

Professor Stephen Schneider, a climatologist based at Stanford University in California, whose name features in the UEA emails, says he has received "hundreds" of violently abusive emails since last November. The peak came in December during the Copenhagen climate change summit, he said, but the number has picked up again in recent days since he co-authored a scientific paper last month which showed that 97%-98% of climate scientists agree that mankind's carbon emissions are causing global temperatures to increase.

Schneider described his attackers as "cowards" and said he had observed an "immediate, noticeable rise" in emails whenever climate scientists were attacked by prominent right-wing US commentators, such as Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh.

"[The senders] are not courageous people," said Schneider. "Where are they getting their information from? They just listen to assertions made on blogs and rightwing talkshows. It's pathetic."

Schneider said the FBI had taken an interest earlier this year when his name appeared on a "death list" on a neo-Nazi website alongside other climate scientists with apparent Jewish ancestry. But, to date, no action has been taken.

"The effect on me has been tremendous," said Schneider. "Some of these people are mentally imbalanced. They are invariably gun-toting rightwingers. What do I do? Learn to shoot a Magnum? Wear a bullet-proof jacket? I have now had extra alarms fitted at my home and my address is unlisted. I get scared that we're now in a new Weimar republic where people are prepared to listen to what amounts to Hitlerian lies about climate scientists."

Dr Kevin Trenberth, head of the climate analysis section at the National Center for Atmospheric Research in Colorado, said he has also been receiving similar emails since last November when a private email of his was released into the public domain in which he had said: "The fact is that we can't account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can't." Trenberth has gone on to repeatedly defend his email and explain its context, but says he has now sent a file of abusive emails totalling "19 pages of text at about 10pt font" to his university's security officials. He said the response of the US police had been "pathetic", but also blamed it on freedom-of-speech legislation.

Professor Michael Mann, director of the Earth System Science Center at Pennsylvania State University and leading proponent of the "Hockey Stick graph", said his experiences of hate mail were "eerily similar" to those described by Schneider. "I'm not comfortable talking about the details, especially as some of these matters remain under police investigation," he said. "What I can say is that the emails come in bursts, and do seem to be timed with high-profile attack pieces on talk radio and other fringe media outlets."http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2010/jul/05/hate-mail-climategate


Nobody is at their best when they are angry. But the carbon industry systematically lies about the science, and attacks legitimate scientists with no concern for the truth.
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 1567
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac wrote:
Slowly now nit wit, tell me what the temperature of the Antarctic in summer is. Next tell me how global warming might have affected the Antarctic. Then tell me, are you a fool, or a pimp for the carbon industries?

Neither
~~~~~~~~

Coldest Antarctic June Ever Recorded

Posted on July 12, 2014 by Anthony Watts


Story submitted by Eric Worrall

Antarctica continues to defy the global warming script, with a report from Meteo France, that June this year was the coldest Antarctic June ever recorded, at the French Antarctic Dumont d’Urville Station.

According to the press release, during June this year, the average temperature was -22.4c (-8.3F), 6.6c (11.9F) lower than normal. This is the coldest June ever recorded at the station, and almost the coldest monthly average ever – only September 1953 was colder, with a recorded average temperature of -23.5c (-10.3F).

June this year also broke the June daily minimum temperature record, with a new record low of -34.9c (-30.8F).

Other unusual features of the June temperature record are an unusual excess of sunlight hours (11.8 hours rather than the normal 7.4 hours), and unusually light wind conditions.

Dumont d’Urville Station has experienced ongoing activity since 1956. According to the Meteo France record, there is no other weather station for 1000km in any direction.

http://www.meteofrance.fr/web/comprendre-la-meteo/actualites?articleId=8990197

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/07/12/coldest-antarctic-june-ever-recorded/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And for you people back east, sorry about that late season polar vortex, I'm sure Al Gore says it's just more proof,,,,,,,,,,,, Okaaaaay.

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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13873

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nw30 wrote:
Coldest Antarctic June Ever Recorded

Ah, HAH! PROOF of global warming ... as long as you call it "climate change".
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5700

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Other unusual features of the June temperature record are an unusual excess of sunlight hours (11.8 hours rather than the normal 7.4 hours), and unusually light wind conditions. "



Wow, who would have known. Flies in the face of the idea that it's winter in the Southern Hemisphere, especially with all of us up here in California getting the longest days of the year right now.
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 1567
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

swchandler wrote:
"Other unusual features of the June temperature record are an unusual excess of sunlight hours (11.8 hours rather than the normal 7.4 hours), and unusually light wind conditions. "



Wow, who would have known. Flies in the face of the idea that it's winter in the Southern Hemisphere, especially with all of us up here in California getting the longest days of the year right now.

So are you saying that this last June wasn't the coldest ever in Antarctica?
Please tell us how you know that?

This should be good.

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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5700

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NW30, just google the shortest day of the year in Antarctica. It might surprise you that it's in June. When you hang in the wrong places for news, some of the wrongness rubs off.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 3962

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chandler, it doesn't matter, it's still the coldest.

How can the models account for volcanos, sun spots, solar flares, and the permafrost releasing unusually high levels of CO2?
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5700

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Antarctica continues to defy the global warming script, ..."



Bottomline, that's the basic message of the article. Throwing some unexplained "extra" daylight hours in the month of June is offered as an ironic anomaly in what's supposedly going on that's resulting in overall colder temperatures. I'm curious why this year's June is many hours longer than normal. How does that work in the Northern Hemisphere? Also, not surprisingly, there's no discussion about what happens in Antarctica, and how it affects what's going in the Northern Hemisphere.

It's no great surprise that loosely collected "facts" are used to create specious conclusions.
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 1567
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

swchandler wrote:


It's no great surprise that loosely collected "facts" are used to create specious conclusions.


Ummm, let's see, how should I handle this hanging curveball,,,,,,,, so many ways,,,,,,,,,
you mean like pictures of polar bears hanging onto ridiculously small icebergs?

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