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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14226

PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
Oh, and my issue with "studies" is that more often than not, we don't get the WHOLE story.

As I've posted before with real numbers, even peer-reviewed, published, random controlled trials, the gold standard driving U.S. evidence-based medicine, have a huge rate -- upwards of 50% IIRC -- of serious inaccuracy due to outright fraud, not to mention poor methods and procedures. I've studied many hundreds of PubMed studies (the gold standard source doctors around the world rely on) to help save my life and the quality thereof from idiots wearing stethoscopes but who haven't read PubMed since medical school and refuse to look, and results are all over the map on each and virtually every issue. Not only do we not "get the whole story", but we get a giant boxcar load of total BS ... and that's from, you guessed it ... peer-reviewed, published, random controlled trials.

I could -- in fact I DID -- write a hundred pages in very small print proving in many different ways what powerfully misleading claims, often even actionable lies IMO, even these medical studies publish. What does that say about "studies" done and cited by politicians and politically biased people in general?
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5253

PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Denial is so amazing. Breaking down smoking diseases and costs. Chronic bronchitis and emphysema cost $14.5 million a year. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10783930 80% of chronic bronchitis cases are caused by smoking, and emphysema is caused primarily by smoking, but is also associated with a "rare genetic disorder called alpha-1 antitrypsin deficiency". http://www.lung.ca/diseases-maladies/a-z/emphysema-emphyseme/index_e.php

To be sure the Center for Disease Control has an agenda--reducing the incidences of disease. Only a zealot or an idiot would say that such an agenda makes their opinions suspect.
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2677

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mikey wrote:
I've studied many hundreds of PubMed studies (the gold standard source doctors around the world rely on) to help save my life and the quality thereof from idiots wearing stethoscopes but who haven't read PubMed since medical school and refuse to look, and results are all over the map on each and virtually every issue. Not only do we not "get the whole story", but we get a giant boxcar load of total BS ... and that's from, you guessed it ... peer-reviewed, published, random controlled trials.

Gosh, Mikey, to think that these are the very people who approved your request for medical disability, too.

<sarcasm>

Hell, even Fox News probably does better with their research and source validation.

</sarcasm>
.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1484

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mac,

Shocking, smoking causes disease and it cost $ to threat! You don't have to prove what we all know, but I suppose you have to prove something rather than acknowledge my point.

Gross figures are for hype and politics. Net figures are the full story, which we rarely if ever see.

I think I have chased this dog around the tree long enough.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5253

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, Techno, net figures are not the analytical tool--and are impossible to determine. Comparing someone with a non-smoking disease to someone with a smoking disease is completely inappropriate in statistics. It compares two different populations, and destroys whatever power there may be in the statistics.

It is too bad you didn't pursue some education in statistics or critical thinking, because you are certainly confident in your poor reasoning. Looking at the annual cost of smoking, and asking whether or not the smokers, whose "freedom" you want to defend, are paying the actual cost of their "freedom", is the appropriate approach. If they are relying on the public to pay for their "freedom", they are, in fact, takers. But then is the whole state of North Carolina--the only state that requires driver's licenses to post the legal status of suspected immigrants. That and tobacco. You must be so proud!
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 2673

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RALEIGH, North Carolina (CNN) — Olegario Rodriguez arrived at the DMV long before the doors opened Monday. He wanted to claim the first spot in line. “I need my license,” said Rodriguez, 25. “When you drive without a license, you get into a lot of trouble, and I don’t want any trouble. Rodriguez said he was grateful to get a license, but wished it had a different design that didn’t mention his immigration status. I can’t deny that there is a lot of discrimination in this country,” he said. “I would rather it (the license) didn’t have those words but there is nothing I can do.”

Montserrat Manta, an undocumented immigrant, said she didn’t plan to get one of the new licenses, even though she would be eligible. "I’ve been discriminated (against) too many times and I don’t want to give them that pleasure again,” she said.

Others said they didn’t mind. “I have always driven illegally, so it does not bother me that they put this on it,” said Cinthia Marroqin, who also waited in line at a Raleigh DMV Monday. “Because I know who I am, and am not afraid.”

So let's get this straight..........these individuals and/ or their parents entered the country illegally. They and/ or their parents work here or claim benefits illegally. They and/ or their parents drive here illegally. They are having deportation action against them deferred solely because the President went around Congress......and the people of North Carolina should be embarrassed to grant them a drivers license that indicates their immigration status?
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3572
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr Gybe....what the hell does your above rant have to do with "Global Cooling"?
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 2673

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ask your friend from Berkeley.........he introduced the topic.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5253

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think that conservatives are capable of being embarassed. The thread about identifying illegals started on another page, with comments that reminded us all of armbands and tattoos. I am perfectly happy to see the red states and Republicans continue to offend the emerging Hispanic vote with bigoted policies. They don't seem to have reviewed the results of the 2012 election critically.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14226

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
smoking causes disease

So do sitting all day even if we also work out every day and chronic long distance running ( > 20 miles per week @ 8-minute-mile pace or faster. The medical impacts of the former are comparable to that of smoking; the latter hasn't been quantified yet but post mortems of such runners show very specific life-threatening pathologies in several heart components.

The preventions are free: moderation. Cure after the harm is done is not so simple, especially in the latter case.

Here I thought I avoided distance running simply because I hate it, preferring sprinting.
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