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Afghanistan, the war that will not go away
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14605

PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

keycocker1 wrote:

1. Mike says; "the continued devaluation of the dollar since Y2000, this administration's oft-stated goal of intensively accelerating same, and Obamanomics' absolutely devastating, deliberate, and sometimes openly voiced opposition to capitalism and thus to the small business sector this nation lives on." That is the kind of stock phrases I mean. The Propoganda -Meister calls down those opinions to the foot troops ...

2. It is very hard to find an economist in the Obama admin who ACTUALLY is opposing capitalism …

3. and trying to drive down the dollar.

4. Asking for a real example of their" openly voiced opposition.... to the small business sector" is how you get plonked in this fairy tale world.


1. Wow! That’s quite a compliment that you’d attribute my original statement to this unnamed “Propagandameister” and imply that he phones me with ideas. If it’s that good, maybe I should do talk radio. I wouldn’t mind making one hundredth of one percent of the top TR salaries. My local newspaper often solicits my articles in person and via email, but doesn’t pay for them.

2.
http://www.breitbart.tv/howard-dean-declares-debate-between-capitalism-and-socialism-to-be-over/
• In “Dreams of My Father”, Obama wrote of his only job in the private sector, “Like a spy behind enemy lines, I arrived every day at my mid-Manhattan office …”. How does one spin that to mean anything but anti-capitalism?
• Obama repeatedly said under repeated questioning from ABC on the air that he favors redistributing existing wealth even though he agrees it will harm the economy. That’s anti-capitalist.
• The private corporation broker I conferred with said virtually every one of his client corporations -- hundreds of them valued at $10M to $100M @ -- is not only hiring no one, but the vast majority of the are up for sale. Their reasons are that 1) no banks are making business loans and 2) they are trying en masse to sell out and hunker down because of the known and even more so the unknown policies and regulations the administration is shoving down their throats. In short, they want to take their money out of their businesses and run to a safer personal and/or business economic environment than the United States. This administration’s policies scare the hell out of them.

3. You only need one when he's a 900-pound gorilla with more power than the President when it comes to setting interest rates and thus driving inflation as national fiscal policy.

4. I don’t know about your fairy tales, but here’s how and why one gets booted from my virtual world; it’s not easy for decent people. The primary criteria are:
1. Strong emphasis on fabricated personal attacks, aka libel if monetary damage were involved, aka “Screw the message; shoot the messenger”.
2. No attempt to support the attacks with facts or quotes. Anyone is welcome to call me a liar if they earnestly try to back it up with hard facts proving I knowingly made a false statement; no one has done so in the last 60 years or so.
3. Refusing requests for #2, usually adding more baseless attacks and false claims about what I said. They don’t even CARE that this written format proves them wrong.
4. Playing word games, such as deliberately distorting or flat lying about what I’ve said, or asking a question under the pretense of seeking information or opinion but coming back only with personal attacks, aka passive-aggressive trolling.
5. In short, deliberate unwillingness to discuss the topic like an adult, i.e., exchanging facts and opinions -- each properly identified as such if not inherently clear -- without incessant and irrelevant personal insults. If I wanted children in my life, I’d have some or be a Cub Scout leader.
6. Assuming a facade of credibility while throwing turds in the punch bowl. Brucie blew that years ago, so his blather is neither credible nor harmful, and he actually asks some interesting questions when on his prescription drugs and/or off the recreational ones (I apologize in advance if that latter implication is false; I’m just going by what we see). I can overlook what I assume are psychological problems; it’s deliberate, voluntary, baseless venom I don’t need in my life. A few more have blown away their initial pretense of credibility by their obsession with degrading rhetoric, but they remain on the list because they CHOOSE TO BE even less capable than Brucie of rational discourse.
7. Taking their personal vendettas into the non-political iW threads and even other internet forums. It doesn’t get much lower than that, because anyone not following these political threads has no clue what the attacks are based on.

Have I ever violated any of these criteria? Sure … maybe a dozen times, all long overdue, in 15-20 years online. I’m owed that a thousand times over.

Does my filter blind me to some useful, interesting, and funny posts these people contribute? Sure; that’s the downside, and it’s why I give some people a lot of leeway before giving up on them. You’ve got to behave like one really nasty piece of trash and contribute relatively very little to get PLONKed. Mo’s extremely impressive cartoons are hilarious, but if I want to be insulted I can always just click on her website, bullypulpit.kom, and read ‘em, or search the rec.WS archives for more of her personal vitriol. Several of you have knowledge and insight I’d love to learn from, but because you wrap it in snake venom, I’ll pass.

To answer the obvious question, No; I will not tell you guys how this killfile works. It took me many weeks to set it up, time spent just to eradicate deliberate invasive pests from my life. Anyone who wants to filter me (or filter anyone else) can just damned well put out the sheer effort I had to when eyeball filtration proved inadequate for the same reason we all look into the Porta Pottie pit.

If anyone not on this list wants to see my answer to a legitimate, “honest” question asked by one of these posters, feel free to paraphrase it or ask me to “lower my shields” and read it. Please don’t abuse that invitation; I’m not trying to hide from earnest communication, just trying to keep the lid on the cesspool. I can’t change your behavior, but I can sure as hell reduce its intrusion into my life. Anyone who wants to return the favor can damned well do their own programming homework.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 6022

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"2. No attempt to support the attacks with facts or quotes. Anyone is welcome to call me a liar if they earnestly try to back it up with hard facts proving I knowingly made a false statement; no one has done so in the last 60 years or so."

When I publicly called isobars on a totally false quote he manufactured concerning Hillary Clinton's statements about General Petraeus, he never admitted to his blatant fabrication, even when caught red handed. That readily revealed to me that isobars lacks the honesty and integrity I think that we all expect here. Unfortunately over time, his repeated bold and untoward comments here continues to show his lack of character and insight about what's going on, and more importantly, the caliber of folks he's trying to hang with.

Caught with his pants down, and he still thinks that no one is looking. This guy has been repeatedly tripped up in so many falsehoods and mis-statements by the knowledgeable and savvy folks that contribute here. It's no wonder that isobars doesn't receive the respect he desires and needs.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 6022

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 4:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The following is an interesting commentary.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-mcmanus13-2009dec13,0,7866771.column

Tonight I finally finished reading Obama's Nobel prize acceptance speech. Without a doubt, a very impressive speech that reflects the broad spectrum of issues that affect his presidency and the international interests the world is concerned about. McManus is right though, time will ultimately reveal the real nature and character of America's strategies and goals.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5560

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think that anyone here writes for Isobars, it was clear before he plonked each of us that he wouldn't respond to argument threads that countered his, and he would parrot right wing web sites without any consideration of the potential bias. I hope you all read this morning's account of AP's careful reading of all of the "climate-gate" e-mails. Nothing at all like what Isobars portrayed. True that the scientists who are convinced that global warming is a threat don't like the deniers, and disparage them. True on the other side that paid flacks for carbon industries have tried to block funding for climate scientists, have no regard for the truth, and manipulate data sets. The sensible thing to do is follow the money--$250 million spent on lobbying against a climate bill. A lot of "letters" that are devoid of facts and get the physics wrong, but almost no peer reviewed articles. Those that are raise legitimate issues about the pace of warming, the relative magnitude of anthropogenic causes, and the economic consequences of regulation. All true, and nothing like what Isobars would have you believe. This is a man whose belief system is immune to facts that don't fit within that system. Just like many so called "Christians."
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 6022

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For those of us that might be a bit light on climate science details, the following photos are highly illustrative of change. It's often said, a picture is worth a thousand words.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-galciers-gallery13-2009dec13,0,6591611.photogallery
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coyotewindsurf



Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 1275
Location: SF Bay

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:02 pm    Post subject: He's makin' a list and checking it twice... Reply with quote

Has our dear friend gone green for the holidays?




Wink

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mo
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windoggie



Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 2409

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mo...thats so venomous of you
_________________
/w\
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 6022

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the green scheme in the presentation. I love the irony.
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feuser



Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 1398

PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:

• In “Dreams of My Father”, Obama wrote of his only job in the private sector, “Like a spy behind enemy lines, I arrived every day at my mid-Manhattan office …”. How does one spin that to mean anything but anti-capitalism?
• Obama repeatedly said under repeated questioning from ABC on the air that he favors redistributing existing wealth even though he agrees it will harm the economy. That’s anti-capitalist.
• The private corporation broker I conferred with said virtually every one of his client corporations -- hundreds of them valued at $10M to $100M @ -- is not only hiring no one, but the vast majority of the are up for sale. Their reasons are that 1) no banks are making business loans and 2) they are trying en masse to sell out and hunker down because of the known and even more so the unknown policies and regulations the administration is shoving down their throats. ...


"Dreams From My Father" - NOT "OF". Isobar obviously hasn't read the book; which might account for the complete misinterpretation of the quoted sentence fragment.

His private corporation broker is of course not "hunkering down" (i.e. anti-capitalist) because of regulations, but because of
1. the risks in the current market.
2. because he/she can - i.e. have already made their money. Hey, it's capitalist if you're in it for the ride up as well as for the ride down. Otherwise we're socializing risk and privatizing gains, but that's music to Iso's ears, who has never said no to handouts coming his way.

This risk (1) is posed by the insecurity of the consumer and financial markets but also through the threats to small or startup business (i.e. those worth investing in) from existing mega-corporate competition and lack of leverage in the market.

Try bringing a new product to market - one that migh touch the market share of an industry giant. Or try getting a good deal from an insurer/HMO if you have fewer than 200 employees...

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florian - ny22

http://www.windsurfing.kasail.com/
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5560

PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remember a few things about that scary time last October.

1. Isobars was in favor of a TARP-like program, as was I. McCain was completely paralyzed, to the point of being unwilling to say anything in the White House meeting. He was paralyzed because he professed to know not much, and was uncertain how it would play out in the election. Obama, on the other hand, was willing to work with Bush and all the Republicans that seems to have worked pretty well.

2. Not that much has been lost in the TARP program, and it seems, in the view of most of the pundits, to have stopped the economy from running off the cliff. That so called socialist Obama was confident enough in the team to have left nearly all Republicans running the economic sectors.

3. My stocks have nearly recovered, as I imagine Isobars have. But it is time to have the other shoe drop, and re-regulate (but not back to the point of the 1930's rules), as well as look to recovery of the other segments of the economy.

Isobars didn't think it was socialism when it was to protect him. Hmmmmm
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