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PROOF: Obama IS the end of the free world
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 1565
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem is of our insistence to try to apply western thinking to the radical Iranians, they don't think the same way we do. Their minds are full of radical religious elements that effect the way they see the world.
We are infidels, and as such, we don't even deserve to get out of bed in the morning, let alone live to see the light of day.
And we're supposed to believe that they can negotiate with honesty, transparency, and through our eyes,,,,,,,,,, sorry, that's a tough one to swallow.

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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2586

PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nw30 wrote:
Their minds are full of radical religious elements that effect the way they see the world.

Hmm. Sounds like a whole bunch of the republican presidential hopefuls back in 2011...

Bachmann, Perry, Huckabee, Santorium, maybe even the Mittster... and Palin four years before that.

By the way, NW............... the correct word is A F F E C T. . Laughing . . Laughing . . Laughing
.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 4998

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We now have the latest word from the American Taliban. From the Central Coast and his deep and insightful study, he knows the Middle East like his quiver!
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2586

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Herr Doktor Professor Turdy wrote:

The problem is of our insistence to try to apply western thinking to the radical Iranians, they don't think the same way we do.


mac wrote:

We now have the latest word from the American Taliban. From the Central Coast and his deep and insightful study, he knows the Middle East like his quiver!

Actually, I think we have the top word from the Great Herr Doktor Professor Turdy, who has studied, lectured, and published internationally about his tremendously insightful tomes on the inner workings of the upper minds of the middle-eastern Iranians.

Who else knows Iranian thinking the way Herr Doktor Professor Turdy does?

He'll use his latest affectation to great effect, though I doubt it will affect the effect it has on the Iranians.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3235

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you substitute Christian for Muslim in NWs post you will have the opinion of the conservatives in Iran.
Are the Iranis correct in that assessment of the religious right in America?
This is war between Middle East conservatives and Western conservatives.
Liberals in both countries would like their conservatives to stop crating this problem, but they can't even understand this post.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have friends who are Iranians in America. I find NW's bigotry on this, and many issues, offensive beyond words.
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2586

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac wrote:
I find NW's bigotry on this, and many issues, offensive beyond words.

You suffer from coulrophobia?
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mac,
Me too.
NW is talking about radical Islam here, not our Irani friends with normal ideas.
I was the one who brought up ordinary educated Iranis.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KC--the righties here, when told that their language is offensive, reflexively shout, "you are the racist!" No thought is ever given to trying not to offend (which is why I rarely bother), or seek any deeper meaning.

There are extreme viewpoints in many cultures and religions. It is fine to criticize extremism, but it is not fine to attribute it carelessly or relentlessly to their culture. People who make any effort to understand complicated matters look for root causes. I have suggested several times that people interested in understanding the Western/Eastern divide at a deeper level read Huntington's "Clash of Civilizations." I found this interesting summary--for a graduate English course. I don't completely agree with either the summary or with Huntington, but he appeals to reason, not hatred.

Quote:
SUNDAY, NOVEMBER 16, 2008

Samuel P. Huntington's "Clash of Civilizations?": A Summary

The work of Samuel P. Huntington will act as a key source for our exploration of the civilization exclusivity question, raised above. His piece “The Clash of Civilizations?” analyzes contemporary and projected conflicts, suggesting that the clash of civilizations will create the fodder for all conflict to follow. He proposes that prior warfare and conflict transition from the work of monarchies, to the stuff of nation states, to the result of ideological differences. Huntington concludes his article with a prediction that civilization divisions and misunderstandings will fuel all debates to come.

To further this argument, Huntington reveals what attributes constitute a civilization. He suggests that civilizations share basic commonalities that have been established over time, and are unlikely to change quickly. These include language, history, religion, and customs – among other basic characteristics – that all members of that division intensely identify with. Civilizations may be large or small, and may overlap creating subcivilizations. A civilization is the broadest level of identification that one identifies with, and as individuals redefine their values and identities, so civilizations adapt and shift.

Upon completion of his analysis of civilizations, Huntington launches into an explanation of his claim that civilization identity will be increasingly important in the future due to the interactions that will unfold between the major civilization “players”, and that there are various reasons that a clash is inevitable. The first reason is that the differences in views between these groups are on a fundamental level. They contain basic questions, such as what the relationships are between man and God, individual and group, and parent and child. In addition, the interactions between these civilizations are increasing rapidly, causing people to become exceedingly receptive of these basic differences. Also, due to modernization, the nation is becoming less of a source of identity, and people are turning to other groups to create meaning, often through unsecularization. This is confounded by an anti-Westernization movement, under which the West is at the peak of its power, and faces a non-West that strongly opposes all association with it. Lastly, economic regionalization is increasing, causing common cultures to rally, and create an “us” versus “them” mentality.

These reasons for why the clash will occur function to emphasize a duality in how it will occur. Huntington argues that on a micro-level, groups that border one another on cultural “fault lines” will struggle; on a macro-level, states from different civilizations will compete on military and economic grounds. These fault lines often occur due to religious beliefs, and have led to Arab nationalist movements, as well as Islamic Fundamentalism. Fault lines have also erupted into conflict between Hindus and Muslims, Chinese and Buddhist Tibetans, Japan and the European and American West, and in the “new Cold War” between China and the United States. Although not all of these clashes will be characterized by violence, the conflicts occurring along Islamic fault lines appear most ominous.

Huntington also reveals the effects of “kin-country rallying” on the clash of civilizations. He reflects upon the examples of Islamic collaboration in Arab countries as well as in the former Soviet Union as a way of demonstrating the ways in which civilizations, regardless of national ties, will unite in order to fight under the “us” versus “them” mentality mentioned above. Huntington warns that this type of rallying has been limited to date, but has the potential to spread into further conflict in the near future.

These trends are certainly exacerbated by the West’s tendency to dominate in the international sphere, through such organizations as the International Monetary Fund (IMF), and United Nations (UN). While the phrase “the world community” is often invoked, Huntington argues that international endeavors tend to favour the economic and political interests of the West; however, this dominance is not the only source of conflict facing the West. Fundamental Western values such as individualism, democracy, and the separation of church and state have little sway over many other world civilizations, causing strain between the West and non-West. Although other nations respond to this “West versus the Rest” mentality in different ways (such as through isolationist foreign policy or Western bandwagoning), these crucial civilization differentiations will continue to strain both domestic and international relations in the future. This is particularly true, as some countries defect from the West while others contain groups at odds with one another regarding how best to approach dominant Western culture.

Huntington asserts that some civilizations are better positioned to Westernize than others, and that Confucian and Islamic groups are among those that are least likely to embrace Western culture. As such, these groups have established a connection with each other, creating a significant challenge to Western interests through their alliance and through increased weaponization. As the West de-weaponizes, this civilization rallying may erupt in some of the most intense conflict to come.

As Huntington proves, the implications of civilization-consciousness are multitudinous and multifaceted, and serve to further differentiate groups rather than bring them together. This assessment may prove useful when considered in relation to the civilization exclusivity idea, as it not only suggests that civilizations are unable to truly understand one another, but that the results of different opinions are sometimes explosive.

To read Huntington’s article in full, visit this link.
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 1565
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

keycocker wrote:
Mac,
Me too.
NW is talking about radical Islam here, not our Irani friends with normal ideas.
I was the one who brought up ordinary educated Iranis.


I was talking about the rulers not the people.
Remember Iran is an oligarchy, the mullahs run the whole show, not the people.
We have in the past tried to get the educated people, students mostly, to rise up in protest to change the mind set of the mullahs, but every time they've tried, they've been shot down, literally, or thrown into prisons never to be seen again.

BTW, the AP reported in my newspaper this morning, that the Iranian nuke talks in Geneva, broke down today w/o any agreement.

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