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Clydesdale sail choice question
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7176



Joined: 23 Apr 1987
Posts: 107

PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:25 pm    Post subject: Very Helpful Reply with quote

Thanks to all. Just what I expected, very helpful responses. Forgive the open ended style of questioning. I weigh approx 220 lb with wetsuit etc on the frame and am 6'4". I am squarely a seasoned intermediate. Check the date I joined the forum. Life can take a bit of your time so to speak. Getting more tow, therefore I am reevaluating the gear. The sail range is 00 9.5 V8,03 8.0, 6.5 retro,02 5.5, 5.0 Ezzy SE. I am wondering if the 6.5 should be replaced by a 7.0 freeride and add a 6.0 wave sail to the quiver? Wave sailing is a goal. If I read the graph correctly, perhaps with a bit of more careful rigging the retros I might be ok. And, to totally twist myself into a knot, perhaps a more "offshore" type of sail to replace the ezzys?
Thanks again to all whom took the time to respond. I appreciate it.
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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3258

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beware the Retro's for surf applications. They have tube battens. Also, try to wrap your head around this. WS culture has a history with Ezzies in some places with people that require more power than those designs can deliver. Measure the length of the leech. Look at how low the clew is. All designed for extra spilling of power. Great for Maui and the west coast. Other than the over built strong feature, what does a sail designed like that do for low end power?

Could there be more enthusiasm for lighter winds of the East Coast if people would find the right designs for over here? I'm constantly baffled by consumer behavior. Seen short boarders with long board specific sails, Race sails on wave boards, etc....

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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 18664

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

7176, when mixing sail brands and models, size nuances go out the window. One brand's 6.0 is often another's 5.2, and different types of sail -- wave, race, freeride, etc. -- have very different power and range characteristics. We all went through that mix'n'match phase, and were SOOOOO glad when we finally began to amass a somewhat coordinated quiver, maybe even a REAL quiver, with meaningful and somewhat smooth flow between our sail types and sizes.

You would probably do great with much less hassle with just 5.0 and 5.8-6.0 waves and the 6.5 and 8.0 Retros. I'd think the Boston area would have enough used gear lying around to provide good pickings in used gear to pare your existing overlaps and add some square footage to your wave range.

Mike \m/
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bred2shred



Joined: 02 May 2000
Posts: 916
Location: Jersey Shore

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
which sail size, type, and manufacturer do you use most often ?


The size and type of gear that you most often use is going to be highly dependent on the type of sailing you do and the conditions you commonly sail.

I'm 6'-3", 215lb. I sail costal NJ with the primary objective being to get into the ocean for wave sailing with bump & jump sailing in the bay as an alternate. I don't usually consider going out unless it's forecast to blow at least 15. For some perspective, my current sails range from 8.1 race down to a 4.0 wave and boards from 10'-6" SUP & 117L freeride/slalom down to 85L wave.

This season I tracked my sessions and recorded what gear I used each time. By far, my most often used sail has been my HSM 6.3 Smack - used 50% of the time. For my type of sailing and the conditions we most often get, that ends up being my "go to" sail. Similarly, my most often used board has been my Exocet Cross 117. Again, it's a versatile board that works for me in a lot of our conditions. After that, it's a pretty even split between my SUP (used with a rig), 117 Screamer, and 104L Syncro. Wave boards generally only get pulled out when it starts averaging close to 30 or more.

Again though, it really depends on your conditions and what type of sailing you want to do. Before I moved to the coast, I did a lot of sailing on an inland lake and I'm sure my most often used gear was a formula board and an 11.0. Quality sailing for sure, but different conditions.

sm
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outcast



Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 2670

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

b-shred's got it....
the exocet cross 117 was a breakthru wave board for big guys...
Look at the Kona mini-tanker, or the ahd sealion too.

At 220, a 6.5 freestyle or onshore wave in smaller surf is fine.
bigger sails do break more masts.....and harder to whip the big ones around in transitions
Most sail companies do not make big dedicated wave sails. Aerotech a notable exception
I use a 6.8 NP Expression on occasion....lotsa pull

Maybe the killer setup for you would be a hot sails super-freak
and a minitanker !!!!!! comer to think of it....that would be a blast!

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Marshall



Joined: 16 Apr 2000
Posts: 9
Location: Shakedown Street

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sailworks hucker 6.6
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sailingjoe



Joined: 06 Aug 2008
Posts: 1087

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
sailingjoe wrote:
Rule of thumb: For every 20 lb. difference in sailor weight, 0.5 or 0.6 sq. meter difference in sail sizing.


How does that explain sail sizes ranging from 3.2 to 6.5 being preferred side by side by same-sized guys, or a 155-pounder consistently preferring a larger sail than a 240-pounder?

Great idea, but it sure confuses anyone who takes it seriously.

Mike \m/
Duhhh. A rule of thumb isn't an exact measure, is it? I agree that it doesn't apply to many cases, but I find it's a good guide from 5.0 to 11 meter sails of comparable age. I use it now to answer questions as to why I am rigging a sail 3 meters larger than others. These sailors 100 lbs lighter than I are shocked when they ride a 6.0 and see me rigging my 9.6. Most of them can't see more than six inches in front of their faces and notice that there are differently sized people in the world. Do you all where the same running shoe size? This formula should give you the idea that bigger guys rig bigger sails. Small guys with big egos don't want to be reminded of it. You have to adjust for the ages of the sails used, too. I'm usually rigging modern sails while many of the sailors I run into are using ones which are ten years or more older. They also don't want to know that their equipment is obsolete. Just the other day I was talking with a Doctor who is quite knowledgeable regarding wind sports. He told me that he had a number of old custom made sails which were very good in their range, but his new sail replaced three of them. I also find often at a beach where a few people are all rigging that one person goes out and then returns to the group announcing the sail size of the day. What non-sense. I must say I think they are rather weak minded to go along with the crowd. Usually, I see them slogging for most of their TOW as too many people are scared to death to be over-powered.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 18664

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sailingjoe wrote:
Usually, I see them slogging for most of their TOW as too many people are scared to death to be over-powered.


I see that VERY often, and chalk it up to any of these scenarios:
Too new at the sport to develop the skills yet.
Too new at a challenging venue.
Just plain don't enjoy speed.
Terrified of getting air.
Too much board for the terrain.

Mike \m/
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 2155
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hummm,

I like your 20lbs = .5M rule of thumb though it doesn't really take
into account the nonlinear nature of wind force.

So if you are 100 lbs heavier than
a sailor using a 6.0 wouldn't your best bet be an 8.5?

Actually, my best sailing buddy underweighs me by about 40 lbs, and
we rig .5 meters different around the 5 M range if we're both dead on.
Down at the 3M range we're pretty close, and at the 8M range I need
about a full meter larger sail to plane up at the same time.

If we both rig the same, I get more wave action and he gets to
sky more jumps. It's pretty amazing how tunable a modern sail is.

-Craig


sailingjoe wrote:
I use it now to answer questions as to why I am rigging a sail 3 meters larger than others. These sailors 100 lbs lighter than I are shocked when they ride a 6.0 and see me rigging my 9.6. Most of them can't see more than six inches in front of their faces and notice that there are differently sized people in the world. Do you all where the same running shoe size? This formula should give you the idea that bigger guys rig bigger sails. Small guys with big egos don't want to be reminded of it. You have to adjust for the ages of the sails used, too. I'm usually rigging modern sails while many of the sailors I run into are using ones which are ten years or more older. They also don't want to know that their equipment is obsolete. Just the other day I was talking with a Doctor who is quite knowledgeable regarding wind sports. He told me that he had a number of old custom made sails which were very good in their range, but his new sail replaced three of them. I also find often at a beach where a few people are all rigging that one person goes out and then returns to the group announcing the sail size of the day. What non-sense. I must say I think they are rather weak minded to go along with the crowd. Usually, I see them slogging for most of their TOW as too many people are scared to death to be over-powered.
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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3258

PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 4:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beware the Hucker for surf app's. Again, tube battens.
_________________
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www.exocet-original.com
www.iwindsurf.com
http://www.epicgearusa.com/
http://www.seanski.com/
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