difference between no cam 2 or 3 cam and race sail

[tag1]

I am 80 kgs I have a 7m severn gator no cam
a 4.9m np supersonic no cam
I am starting to learn how to use footstraps and jybe
I am wanting advice on middle sail
we get average winds here on the coast during winter of 20-60kms
I am learning on a 137L 1998 tiga free ride
I would like a sail that will be fast later on in the higher winds and using
a 90L roberts 275 slalom board that i have maybe a year or two from now
Would a race sail be more range?
Would something with 2 or 3 cams be better
I used to have 6.3 5.7 5.3 race UP sails and I used those with the slalom board
but it was just out fall over and then back fall over so not windsurfing
I used 6.3 and 5.7 most so I was thinking 5.8 maybe 6.0
I would think that I would want less power while learning and then more once I had learned and moved on to the slalom board in 2 or 3 years or should I get one sail now and then sell it later on

Also could you describe the diffference of feel between the types of cam no cam sails

[sailingjoe]

Sails with no camber inducers are easier to use. They are easier to rig, easier to uphaul, easier to gybe and easier to tack. The more cams you have in a sail, the fuller it will be. You would be better off starting with a two cam sail and seeing how you like it.

[andymc4610]

I'd agree....cambered sails are a pain and really seemed to have faded from the average sailors quiver.

[mik377]

Cams are a unnessary hassle unless you are racing. Sails like Ezzy waves have enough camber just from the battens. From my experience cambered sails are less maneuverable and controllable and less fun.

[isobars]

Race sails' extra range is accessible primarily to very good sailors who will push them into their upper wind limits. They excel -- slightly -- only at racing other guys for money to upwind buoys overpowered, at the significant convenience prices mentioned above. None of my buds even own a race sail (or heck, a cam, for that matter.)

I really question the validity of committing this early to something as specific as a brand and type of board (e.g;, Roberts slalom) when there are so MANY brands and styles of gear and so many sailing styles available. Your skills, goals, and preferences will change dramatically and quickly.

I suggest a used or closeout camless 5.5-6.0 for your gap. Save the $2,000 rigs (new race sail, 100% carbon race mast, big carbon booms) for your professional racing career. Besides, I know several guys who will outrun you and your $2,000 6.0 race sail rig on that Roberts across a choppy reach on their camless 4.7 wave sails on a wave board simply because they know how to sail fast ... and they'll pull off a few inverted freestyle tricks on the way. Learn how to drive a Subaru well before you buy an Indy car.

Mike \m/

[billgfc]

Hi all

All sails are not created alike. It is important to understand some of the advances.

I was assisting Maui Sails with some demos recently and have learned a lot more about what is going on with todays technology.

MS-2: This is the two cam all around rec sail to produce good range speed and handling, The feedback I got was : very stable, soft, easy to sail.
This sail rotates smoothly and more EASILY than than no cam sails in this category. In general it is an above 6.0 purchase. One longtime 26 yr plus Gorge sailor tried and remarked of the stability and smooth rotation. He about fell over when I said there were two cams. He thought it was a no cam. It feels light. Summary: If you have a good well designed two cam like this, it will feel light soft and easy, with better rotation than no cam.

Pursuit: This is the fast nocam sail and is light, fast , soft, and very stable, will fuller foot which gives you more range. This fits in same range as the very popular and well designed Sailworks Retro and other no cams. The fast B&J sail the Switch is fast but less full foot for handling. No cams are still the purchased in this range.

Race sails:

It is a misnomer that race sails are only for sailing overpowered. The best race sails, feel light in your hands once sailing. They are not for all sailors. The best sails do not take water in the luff sleeve on routine crashes. Crash bad and you make have some work to do if you are in the water a long time. Most falls the sail stays rotated and you are up in a flash.

Some companies are long on hype, short on R&D. Ask around before choosing which. Service is important. For my Sailworks buddies, its a godsend to have Bruce here, so you get it from the source as well as top sailors. A few of us here are on Maui sails and service is terrific as well. Gorge Surf Shop is the dealer now and they have sail repair. For other brands , just speak to the right folks who use and understand how they will work for you.

Regardless of brand choice, will will change design for conditions:

In the Maui Line my dream quiver:

TR-5 or 6 (2010) 5.9 to 7.6
Switch 5.2 5.6 fast B&J sail, rips through maneuvers, jumps high like the legends. Root design was World Cup Super X winner
Legend 3.7 4.2 4.8 (e one larger if I were doing alot of coast sailing. that wave sail is supper smooth and soft thru lulls and puffs. It is not a flat trampoline, it feels alive

I would like to encourage others who have test feedback on other lines of sails and how you use them in your sailing. Use your own experiences not just the marketing if you can.

Come on Naish guys, Sailworks, Windwing, etc guys? How would you describe nuances of using thes race or two cam/no cam rigs?
How do you change designs say in a quiver from 7 + to 3.3?

[billgfc]

please try to post your experiences with sails made in the last two or three years if possible

this keeps info current

tag1: I s suggest you also post your question on the forum at
www.mauisails.com
the responses will be helpful

same for other sail company forums

[sailingjoe]

This debate is endless. All World Sails have camber inducers. They are convinced it's the only way to go. Discussions of modern, three year old sails remains a marketing ploy. If you want to be up on the latest techniques, you should probably take up kiting. I sail with camber inducers often. I like the low end power and really don't have a lot of trouble executing gybes with them. I have much more trouble executing gybes when I'm using a small board and big sails irregardless of their construction. A local shop owner had an Arrows 5.6 race sail dropped on his doorstep a few years ago. He didn't want it so he gave it to me. It was in great shape and had world cup numbers on it. I kept it for a couple years and then decided to rig and sail it. I loved it. The low end power in these little puppies is superb. They're also much stabler in gusty winds. If rigged correctly, you just don't get pulled over in those nasty outbursts of Neptune's breath. Now that I'm using an adjustable outhaul, I find they yield a much more distinctive fine tuning range for me, too. Once you learn some of the tricks of setting the inducers, it really isn't all that more of a hassle to rig them. Usually, they don't sell as quickly as the R.A.F. sails so they don't force you to go out and stick up a convenience store. You can find them discounted at the end of a season or two. Damn, I paid $125 for my '03 unused 11 meter VMG this year. Nevertheless, I don't recommend them for beginners, dishwashers or weekenders.

[WMP]

[billgfc]

come on guys, everyone knows how you know and pick classics over the years and enjoy them.

I could suggest a few classics of my own, having sailed here since 1980.

Whether you choose to buy something or not is your choice, Please do not live in fear that someone in the windsurfing industry will make a living, raise a family and contribute to your fun and his family. Maybe you could show a bit support for those whose passion is not just selling equipment, but bringing forth new stuff that will help all skills enjoy the sport more.

Passion is as central to life as to windsurfing. There are some companies who are dedicated to seeing that smile on your face when you sail.

Note that I used first hand feedback to describe the designs I wrote of. Little related to what I feel when I sailed them. What is important is what does the sailor feel. Is a change noted? Is that change enjoyed?

The right old stuff sure is fun, but the right new stuff just kills it. It does not kill it because of ad budget, it kills it because if selected to for the sailors asking the questions.

In summary the original question was about sails. Companies with passion who make end users #1 have made some wonderful changes.

There are two cam sails out there that feel as light as same design in no cam while sailing and rotate easier. That said no cams are still most popular.

the new race sails should be sailed to be believed, with caveats I posted above

The new wave and B&J sails are softer, have more range. Sailors using them provide this feedback. first hand observations noted:)