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Chinook Waterstarter
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Mulekick84



Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 337

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is Finkle, Einhorn or is Einhorn, Finkle??

Ace is on the Case!
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NickB



Joined: 30 Jun 2009
Posts: 497
Location: Alameda, CA

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, first deep water waterstart today, thanks all. 15mph wind, 7.7m sail (I'm 150lb). No flotation except wet suit and waist harness.

I had memorized the ABC DVD, but really what was in my mind when it happened was acctx's comments (see bottom of page 2). Dunno why but somehow it made it happen. I was lucky I fell with everything oriented pretty correctly, mast almost perpendicular to the wind. grabbed it half way between boom and mast tip, shook it up a couple of time, sail flew, worked my way down, grabbed boom with both hands far from mast, concentrated on maintaining the sail flying while pushing on mast to orient board downwind, let myself get lifted onto board when it was perpendicular to wind, voila.

I hope to do it again very soon. today I feel I just got lucky but at least I got the "feel" I need to recreate from now on, and I confirmed that there is one angle for the mast in the wind where the sail will fly with no effort from me whatsoever.

again, all comments here were very much appreciated and will be put to good use Very Happy
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lenthomas



Joined: 01 Aug 2012
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could having the clew floating be an additional aid in the event you must uphaul ?
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dennis_c



Joined: 05 May 1998
Posts: 642
Location: Rio

PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whether waterstarting or uphauling, the first job is to clear the sail (break it free from the water) by getting some wind under it. This is done, of course, by moving the luff into, and up into, the wind. Whether with your hand on the mast or on the uphaul, this should be relatively easier with a floatier clew.

(+1 for the pool noodle trick.)
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beaglebuddy



Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 673

PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you can rest your boom on the tail of your board you had better be under 5'6" tall or on a longboard otherwise your boom is too low.
I think the waterstarter has merit on large sails, perhaps over 7M
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beaglebuddy



Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 673

PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
To turn my sail and rig, I simply place one hand on each and swing my submerged legs and torso in 5-foot-radius circles. A few rotations uses big, fresh torso muscles to rotate the whole schmear 180 degrees in well under a minute.


You have given this advise before and I asked you for clarification before and I thought I had figured out what you were saying but now I'm still confused Question
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arnegahmig



Joined: 27 Nov 2013
Posts: 9
Location: El Médano

PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't bother with the waterstarter. Instead work on your technique. If the clew is sliding back into the water it is most likely because you are not swimming towards the wind with the mast.

I wrote a whole post on how to get the sail out of the water for the waterstart. Check it out if you're interested

http://howtowindsurf101.com/waterstart-kit-handling

Hope this helps.
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Sailboarder



Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 397

PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lenthomas wrote:
Could having the clew floating be an additional aid in the event you must uphaul ?


Actually, it's often easier to uphaul when the clew is deeply in the water.

I learned to waterstart last year and I'm now reliable with it. I used to feel a Waterstarter would have helped me. But I now know that the trouble I had was caused by bad technique. I guess the waterstarter would teach someone bad habits more than anything else.

Kids use training wheels to learn to pedal before cycling. I don't see what the waterstarter can help teach. The first step is really to learn to clear the sail. The best support is probably to get a lesson...
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jfeehan



Joined: 27 Jul 1998
Posts: 93

PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I doubt the floaty thing is much help.

If you are having trouble flying the sail you are probably doing something wrong:

1) you might not be oriented correctly with respect to the wind. I think between about 90 and 100 degrees usually works best

2) you might not be using the right technique to fly the sail. you do not want to be pushing the sail up, you want to draw the sail into the wind, using a sweeping motion that is more or less parallel to the water surface. if you push up on the mast, the clew will go down. this is not good.

3) you might not have enough wind. With time you will get better at waterstarting in light wind, but initially it will be easier with wind. When you are in the water start position, keep looking upwind for puffs of wind. I usually fly the sail as the puff is approaching, but wait til I am in the strongest part of the puff to actually get up.

4)Once the sail is flying and you are trying to get up, resist the urge to pull down on the boom in an attempt to pull yourself up. You want to keep the rig moving up towards vertical. think more of pushing the rig away, and letting the wind pull you out of the water.

5) as you are coming up you sometimes need to thrust the rig forward a bit, or at least make sure it doesn't tilt backwards, so that you don't steer the board too far into the wind. if you are turning into the wind as you rise up, you will loose all your power.

Also, I think if you can rest the boom on the tail of your board, your boom is probably too low. Of course, this depends on the board and the sailor, but I think it is often true.

With really big sails - like an 11.0, unless you fall in the perfect waterstart position, it's probably faster to uphaul.
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bred2shred



Joined: 02 May 2000
Posts: 637
Location: Jersey Shore

PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jfeehan wrote:
I doubt the floaty thing is much help.
If you are having trouble flying the sail you are probably doing something wrong:


I agree. Resting the boom on the tail of the board and/or using a float on the tail of the boom are just band aids for poor technique. If you swim the sail in a "slicing" motion as Jeff describes, there is no need for a float as the sail will easily rise to the water surface. Once the sail is out of the water and flying, there should be no need to rest the boom on the tail of the board. Resting the boom on the tail of the board often just presents another opportunity for the clew to catch a wave and get driven under as you drift downwind.

Quote:
With really big sails - like an 11.0, unless you fall in the perfect waterstart position, it's probably faster to uphaul.


I agree with the exception that this also applies to "moderately big" sails as well. I would say with sails starting at 7.0 (or even smaller in some cases), uphauling is a totally legitimate and often easier technique than water starting. If you're on a floaty board and the sail drops into a difficult waterstart position, just jump up on the board and uphaul.

sm
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