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Pictures and dimensions of a snowfer?
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inf2003



Joined: 15 Jan 2009
Posts: 137

PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:39 am    Post subject: Pictures and dimensions of a snowfer? Reply with quote

Im an engineer, icesailor and windsurfer and am currently trying to design a new ice/ snow sailing board that works along the lines of a snowfer but with a new design that allows for much better turning abilities more like an ice sailing board. I am designing it so it would also go well on snow or mixed conditions. Any snowfer owners out there that could send a photo of the bottom of the board and give me some dimensions of their board. this would just help give me some infomation on size. From what I understand the snowfers downfall is that it doesnt turn very well. My idea would solve that. If the final design works well I could share it with you.
Thanks
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us4846mmoran



Joined: 30 Apr 2000
Posts: 73

PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some photos of snowfers on their website. http://www.snowfer.com/marketplace.html
top & bottom of used snowfers.

Not sure about the dimensions. I rode a friends Snowfer last year on ice w/some snow pack over it. it is about 15" wide about 5-6' long. triple concave bottom with four baldes two in back on the sides & two up front on the sides.

Feels like you are on a train track when sailing one of these on ice. Can't tip it up on its side to carve a turn if you do you get pitched

I have alot of interest in snow sailing as well and have been working on building my own out of wood & adding metal blades. Almost done with the 1st protype & will post a photo when completed with report.

I am not a big fan of the snowfer.

Good luck & keep us posted
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inf2003



Joined: 15 Jan 2009
Posts: 137

PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

us4846mmoran, Thanks for your reply and the dimensions. I saw the pics on the site but its not a clear view of where the blades are. I dont understand how a snowfer can sell for so much when it cant turn. ON the videos you can see them riding the tail of the board and swinging the front with the mast. I love the freeskate feeling but the ice is very seldom good enough for it. funny on the vids for the snowfer they show them riding them up on one side rail.

I am also working on a concave bottom design similar to the snowfer but the blade and snow portion with have turning mechanisms. It will be able to turn more like a freeskate but also be able to handle the snow like a snowfer.

I also have a completely different convex bottom design that may work.

Look forward to seeing what you come up with . I will send a photo to you also of mine when the 1st prototype is complete. Just rounding up the materials now. Thanks again for your reply. I will keep you updated.
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cjgilmore



Joined: 31 Jul 2008
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:32 pm    Post subject: versions of snow sailers Reply with quote

I have tried a snowfer like board which was about a foot longer and it was most fun in nukin' wind and powder. With hard pack it wanted to go straight for the most part. I then had the idea of making super strong trucks and made a rig with two skiis in front and two in the back that turn like a freeskate. You need lots of wind it is fun but the turn radius was still quite large and it was slow. After going to a snow racing completion with people from all over the world I came to the conclusion that two long 300 cm skiis with no side cut work the best at about 13 degree angle. You turn by bending the skiis with lots of pressure. Anouther way to get the long skii is to use four skiis, the front skiis are angled less the the back skiis to help with flotation. None of the snow sled are as fun a ice sailing with a free skate.

A kite and skiis or snowboard is so much more easy and fun on snow. Good luck with your experiment.
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us4846mmoran



Joined: 30 Apr 2000
Posts: 73

PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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us4846mmoran



Joined: 30 Apr 2000
Posts: 73

PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems to be a malfunction w/my prior post third attempt.

inf2003

check out this video of some guys riding these pirateboards in hungary http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4trBVToTLw&feature=related

best design I have seen so far and is the basis of my design.

Appears to be foam & glass board with a skate blade as a fin.

their website http://www.pirateboards.com/
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SeaDawg



Joined: 12 Sep 2002
Posts: 277

PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I lived in Toronto for several years and did a fair bit of wind surfing on lake Simco. I ran into Charles Ciparagy(sp) several times and had a chance to demo the 'Snowfer'. I'm pretty sure his goal was to get as close to windsurfing on water as possible, once it crossed from the liquid state to a solid state.

The snowfer was expensive because they were really well built and manufactured in relatively low numbers. The Tononto area windsurfers were very creative at puting various devices on the Lake to capture the wind in the winter time.

The Snowfer did or does a great job at handling the various conditions it meets on a frozen body of water from smooth black ice to various depths of snow packed powder to loose powder.(Even floats when you break through the ice)

The key is the concave bottom and the Blades at the four corners. i observed that turning involved high powered gybes, with 100% commitment to having weight on the tail to windward(pivot gybe)

I made my own with old skis. One center ski 180cm and two side skis 165cm fastened via a pair of concave bridges to a piece of marine plywood 14"X3/4X5' the bridges were spaced about 30" apart.

Do to the concave the outside edges of the skis would make good contact with the ice and provide enough bite to track OK. The 3 skis at a 14" width could handle about 3-8" of powder.

I was willing to spend about $25 on materals. Although no where near perfect my board worked pretty well.On both ice and snow.
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inf2003



Joined: 15 Jan 2009
Posts: 137

PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

us4846mmoran

I looked at the video and website. Thank you for sharing it. I think you are on the right track. However, I think if you look very close at one of the pictures it appears that the rear fin may not be just a metal fin protruding out. I think it is mounted on a truck more like a freeskate and the front of the board is just a flat bottom foam and resin like a water sailboard. The board appears flat on the bottom. This design makes sense so that when you hit snow conditions it will ride on the snow more like a snowboard. One of my designs involves a fixed blade or several fixed blades like fins and thrusters on the back but the board has a convex (not concave) Ptex ed bottom. I will lay this up in a vaccum bag. This way when you want to turn and get the board on an edge in the ice, snow or mixed conditions it will roll like a water board. Different sets of rear fins will take over as you roll the board and it will turn more. the ptexed bottom with a lot of surface area will give you float as the snow gets deeper. It will require more production and equipment than can be made in a workshop but I have this ability. Snowfer was on the right track but I think it needs to go another step forward so it can turn at lower jibe speeds. Like Seadawg said they did a good job at making something that will handle various conditions. I just want to take it a step further and improve.

Another of my ideas uses similar shape as the snower bottom design with a p texed bottom but goes a step forward with turning ability on the blades. I am working on the prototype now. Do you plan on using a single fin in the back with a flat bottom board? Have you tried one like this?

I will share my experiences with you but It will take me a bit to round up all the materials. I have to rebuild my equipment collection because I sold it all when I moved from Hawaii due to shipping costs. Anyone have a good source for up to date used equiptment. I am in the New England area now and not a lot of shops near me.
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inf2003



Joined: 15 Jan 2009
Posts: 137

PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

us4846mmoran
Just looked at the video again. You are correct it looks like just a flat bottom board custom board with a single metal fin. But how would this turn on just ice? They dont show them turning. I think in powder snow it might work fine. Is this how you are making yours?
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us4846mmoran



Joined: 30 Apr 2000
Posts: 73

PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Inf2003

It appears the pirateboard setup turns by putting board & blade on edge (like a skate or ski), but I think you are correct the pirate board appears limited in its turning ability ( just very long drawn out turns. maybe to long to complete a jibe therefore no video of jibes.)

The board being low to ground plus nose flat on the ground appears to be the problem on ice.

When I set my single blade setup similiar to theirs on the ground I can get the board on 25-30 degree angle which puts the blade on about 60- 65 degree angle which I think will allow me to jibe on ice , but only a long drawn out turn.

If I raise the height of the blade or make the board narrower should be able to get more angle & tighter turn. (45 degrees would be ideal)

Also plan on adding curved side blades on the rear sides set 3-4" further back than the center blade. 1st will try single blade.

these blades would only protrude about 1/4 to 1/2" from the bottom of the board center blade about 2.5-3" from bottom so when I have the board up on edge will have center blade & inside of turn side blade both on edge similiar to ice skates or skiis on edge, which should turn the board using the curve of the blade.

I think snowfer has too much concave places most of the pressure on the outside edges (rails & blades) which doesn't allow for a turny board.

I think a flat bottom with groved chanell or channells in the center or on the bottom of the board 1/4" deep X 1/2" wide w/ tri blade configuration like surf board (center blade higher 3-4" side blades 1/4" or less from bottom of board all curved like hockey skate blade would work well.

May need to move side blades around. (trial & error try behind center blade try in front of center blade & maybe try side blades up just before the nose.

I am going with a flat board mainly because I will be on snow mostly & hoping to float on top of the powder.

Will be sailing on Oneida Lake 14 miles North of Syracuse NY ( I live in Syracuse area everything here is usually covered in snow.)

Good luck with your design I look forward to seeing it


Last edited by us4846mmoran on Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:37 am; edited 2 times in total
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