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Pictures and dimensions of a snowfer?
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cjgilmore



Joined: 31 Jul 2008
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for posting the video of the board. It does look very interesting. I still rather http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=957HSTEvSSc&feature=related
for ice. It is so similar to water sailing with regards to turning and you can get going quite fast in control. I haven't had ice windsurfed like the two videos in a couple of years.

Are you using the hi tech speed skating blade like the hungarian board that pivots so the blade stays flat with the ice and the boards nose can go up and down with the small snow drifts. How does it go on snow? There was a fella from Hawaii of all places at our race competition with a wide ski with a skeg on the back sililar to a waterski blade. He had a bad knee so not sure if it was the rider or the board that held him back.

I also found this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8beEkB4cuY&feature=related on your board.
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wooot



Joined: 05 Oct 2002
Posts: 199

PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually own a snowfer

I also have build 4 different "prototypes"

The sailing I have been able to do was mosly on softer or (Melting snow... Chinook wind style)

Hard snow is definitley the best, The best general version is the "long stiff ski" version"
2 stiff skiis, a couple 2 x 4's beveled at roughly 20 degrees and a piece of plywood w/ griptape and cut up fan belts as foot straps (mount the beveled 2" x 4"s beteen the ply and skiis)... you can also mount some sharpened and beveled angle- iron at the tails to help

Lateral resistance is gonna be your issue, everything will want to slip sideways.... Flat is bad! especially in soft snow.

In most cases the "2 ski version" has less resistance than the snowfer, plus it willl suck up irregularities in the surface by having the skiis flex.... the atatchment 2" x 4"s are maybe 16" long (2 skiis plow much less now than a wide snowfer)


I have more input if you like... but I would suggest going for a "ski-version" so you can see how it feels, and THEN make adjustments from there
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windsailsurf



Joined: 05 Feb 2009
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 7:13 am    Post subject: ice board Reply with quote

http://www.windsurfing.hu/videoajanlat.asp this web site has 5 vids of 360s and jibe and tacks on ice board called the pirate
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inf2003



Joined: 15 Jan 2009
Posts: 136

PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

usmmoran

Did you ever complete your board? I was sidetracked by a serious illness in the family so never go to working on mine. In the meantime I found some pictures of the pirate custom board that you were basing your design on. I think you really have something if you add a couple of smaller skegs on the rear outer edges. that way when you lean the board to turn the smaller skeg engages and pulls the board that way. If I ever get back to it I may make a prototype in the vaccum bag. It is a foam and glass design. Cross between a snowboard, a windsurf board, a snow ski and a water ski. I think it could work as the great design for both snow and ice sailing. the video posted earlier in this thread shows them going on the ice but it does not show them turning. I would suspect in its current design it would not turn well on ice. Adding the small ice skegs should solve this. Any ideas or thoughts from anyone with experience?



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inf2003



Joined: 15 Jan 2009
Posts: 136

PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps even putting a blade / skeg on the front of the board will make it ride on just the two blades while on ice. I dont know if you could balance the board on just the two blades when going straight . This could make it even faster than a freeskate as you would be on two blades instead of 4. As it leans you would engage the thruster blades so it would turn. As you hit snow the blades would sink in the snow and the curved snowboard edges would take over to make the board turn. I think this might work.
Any thoughts

here is the video of the board being tacked and gybed on snowy ice

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbSpnM8rI7E
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inf2003



Joined: 15 Jan 2009
Posts: 136

PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am going ahead with the build of this board. I am going to make it just like the pirate board in the photos but want to add some shorter and smaller thruster fins in the rear so it will turn better on the ice. The reviews I have read on this board say that it excels in cruddy ice or snow covered ice when the freeskate type boards are unusable.

The construction will be similar to a ski or a snowboard on the bottom with a p-tex bottom, metal snowboard edges, a layer of fiberglass and epoxy resin and a core material. Above that will be more similar to a windsurf board construction with a foam glued to the core material, divinycell and then a glass, epoxy top. The mast track will be a standard windsurf track and it will have inserts to mount the footstraps to.

My big question is this.: on the pirate boards the metal fin is removeable so you can insert different sizes for the conditions. I want to do the same. I also want to make some removeable thruster fins to aid turning when the condition are more ice but not smooth enough to use my freeskate. Does anybody have any ideas on how to make a removeable steel fin? Obviously I cant use a setup from a windsurf board. on the pirate board the fin slot is open all the way though the top. here is another photo of the top



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MattD



Joined: 25 May 2011
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

inf2003, thanks for posting that. Any idea what he charges to make one?

I'm currently building a SAVO Sledge. I would have finished it last winter but grad school took up all my time. I plan on having it ready for this winter. I made the board with a core of plywood covered in carbon fiber. I'm connecting the board to the skis with rod end bearings and custom milled brackets. I have 3m long ski jumping skis that I plan on using in powder-like conditions and some shorter steel edge skis if it is icy. The steel edged skis are only 2.2m so I worry that may not provide enough lateral resistance on the ice.

I feel the above sledge will be better for 'softer' conditions but the pirate board looks like a lot of fun in icy and minimal snow conditions. I like his approach to construction, foam with a snowboard like bottom. I originally planned to make my own ski jumping skis before I found a good/cheap source, so I've done a bit of reading on the process.

As for what kind of finbox to use, my suggestion would be to use a slot just as he has. Better yet, just two holes (tuttlebox style), with bolts going into the fin (if it is thick enough). Drill bigger holes in the foam where these fin bolts will go, and fill with some watertight filler.

I look forward to seeing your progress Smile

One final thought, given the dimensions aren't far from an actual snowboard, I wonder how it would compare to a snowboard with added fin(s)?
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inf2003



Joined: 15 Jan 2009
Posts: 136

PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Mattd, the reason I didnt go with the ski style design because my lake is usually cruddy ice that is not smooth enough for a freeskate type design or it it a combination of snow and ice. This design is supposed to excel at this type of condition. Also the drawback of the ski design is they dont turn well. This design has a curved edge that makes it carve well in the snow. I want to add the small thruster fins to make it turn better on the cruddy ice. If we get smooth ice (very seldom) I will use my freeskate.

The longest snowboards are like 160 cm long and they plow the nose into the snow and dont work well. I think they are also too flexible . This pirate design is over 180 cm long and is very stiff due to the foam and glass over the top of the snowboard part. Many people have tried snowboards and they dont work.

I have no idea how much they charge but im sure they are very expensive. I dont think they are even available in the US. The company is from Europe (I think Finland)

As far as the fin box. do you mean just build a rectangular box with a closed top and drill and tap the top of the fin? are you saying I could use a standard windsurfing tuttle box. I was going to weld a custom one out of steel. Your idea might work but I think the fin would be no thicker than 1/4" steel. probably too thin to drill and tap from the top.
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MattD



Joined: 25 May 2011
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps you could make a fin 'head' thick enough to take screws, but mill down the fin so it is much thinner. Maybe a 3/4" box milled down to 1/4" for the fin. You could then use 1/4" screws. Instead of using a tradition windsurfing box, you could probably just mill some plastic to make your own.

You have me very tempted to build one of these. I'm just trying to figure out a simple fabrication approach. I'll be interested to see what works for you and what doesn't.

Edit: Yes, tap the holes in the fin.
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inf2003



Joined: 15 Jan 2009
Posts: 136

PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Matt , thanks for the idea on the finbox. That is a great approach. The process I am going to use is as follows.

The bottom will be made just as you would build a snowboard or snowskis; cut the p-tex to the final shape. Glue on the metal edges with super glue. Then make a form to go in the vaccum press. put on a layer of glass and epoxy, then the core layer, another layer of glass and epoxy. Then instead of a top sheet you I was going to epoxy the foam. This would all go in the vaccum bag in on glue up. After the foam would be the divinicell and on top of that would be more glass and epoxy just as you would make a windsurf board.

Its really just the top of a windsurf board with the bottom of a snowboard.

It may be a slow process because I have only limited hours at night to work on it but I will try to keep the thread updated with the progress.
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