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armaswindsurf



Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 124
Location: Manhattan or Brooklyn,NCY

PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEALPAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!.... don't worry buddy,... hahahahahaha... oh god.. that's su funny.... hahahaa.. a lawsuit to me?????????/..... hahahahaaa.... oh my... that will be so funnnn... and you are so right!... that only will make me MILIONARE... hahahahhahahahaa.....

good bye again...
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MalibuGuru



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 6463

PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes Armas, Very few Americans know the difference between Che Guevara and John Travolta. We are a morally bankrupt state full of people who are beginning to believe the government should do more and more for us, eventually leading to people like Che Guevara. We are loosing our freedom bit by bit because we are asking the govt to do more.

Pelosi wants to bail out the auto makers. They make lousy products. She wants to approve their business plan first. She knows nothing about cars but wants to tell them what to do.

Sounds a little like Cuba in the early days, huh?

Che was a murdering thug........God Bless America
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dabull1



Joined: 19 Mar 1997
Posts: 542

PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Homerun Stevo!!! Bull
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feuser



Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 1497

PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevenbard wrote:
Yes Armas, Very few Americans know the difference between Che Guevara and John Travolta. We are a morally bankrupt state full of people who are beginning to believe the government should do more and more for us, eventually leading to people like Che Guevara. We are loosing our freedom bit by bit because we are asking the govt to do more.

Pelosi wants to bail out the auto makers. They make lousy products. She wants to approve their business plan first. She knows nothing about cars but wants to tell them what to do.

Sounds a little like Cuba in the early days, huh?

Che was a murdering thug........God Bless America



Wow, where to begin...

Car companies make lousy cars because until recently, everyone bought them.

Now with gas prices almost 1/3 of what they are in Europe, that business disintegrated and Washington HAS to bail them out - under the threat of adding million to the list of lost jobs.

And you think they should just hand over the money without asking how it's going to be used first?

Che and his popularity in most of the rest of the world is NOT a product of government intervention on behalf citizens, but against them.

Do some reading, perhaps start with googling Eisenhower and United Fruit.

cheers,

Florian

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florian - ny22

http://www.windsurfing.kasail.com/
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 8355

PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"They make lousy products."

Oh really Bard, and you're an automotive expert right? Maybe you can share with us all how you arrived at that conclusion, and of course, share some of the facts.

After having owned foreign made vehicles for most of my adult life, in 1997 I bought a new Chevy van that I'm still driving today as my sole vehicle. From my experience, I can say without a doubt that it been an outstanding product that has been well made and super reliable. Sure, my gas mileage is what one can expect driving a 3/4 ton truck, but it offers unique advantages I doubt you could find in any foreign made van, particularly one that runs on regular gas.

American auto makers aside, let's consider the American defense industry. As we all know, it's entirely dependent on government money that's funded by the US Congress and paid for by the American people. Little question about our superiority when it comes to defense products. And that's only one example of an industry that has its roots in government funding.

Contrary to Bull's feelings about your comment, in my book you're not getting to first base with the nonsense you're inventing. As I see it, you can't even hit the ball.
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dabull1



Joined: 19 Mar 1997
Posts: 542

PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:31 pm    Post subject: Salt in the wound Reply with quote

Hey SW, I've been involved in the auto industry for over thirty years, so I have a little more access to the first hand reality of what the guys who actually work on your fine GM, Ford, Chrysler products than you do. While the products out of Detroit have improved over the past ten years, the garbage that left the production lines from roughly 1975 to 1995 developed a reputation for American cars that poisened the market just as the imports were targeting the US for growth with quality, design, and value, all lacking in US production. Do I need to name the fine autos that killed Detroit... Mustang2, Pinto, Fairmont, Gremlin, Hornet, Seville, 80's plastic- fantastic Corvettes, and on and on. Meanwhile, the Asians and Europeans [p/c version only on this post!] were killing us with cool cars like the 240Z, VW, Camry, Lexus LS400, all which quickly developed the perception of import dominance, and Detroit countered with 6MPG SUV's that set the table at which they sit today. I, for one, proudly own two fine American irons, circa 1965, and four Toyotas, all made in the US!!! Bankruptcy would allow Detroit to shed the arcane labor contracts that are at the root of this bailout and allow them to become much more competitive with the "foreicn" makes. Now what all this has to do with Che, Hot Sails, windsurfing, God only knows and He really doesn't care!!! RANT OVER, Bull PS I believe Mr Bard owns a LARGE AMERICAN PICKUP TRUCK!!!

Last edited by dabull1 on Sun Nov 30, 2008 11:34 pm; edited 7 times in total
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MalibuGuru



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 6463

PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bankruptcy will purge both Management and $75 per hour unions. Govt should be out of commerce ASAP. The idiots in the democratically controlled congress know nothing about cars or banks. Bush should be ashamed of signing all their legislation and miss-managing our country with them.

Americans should stop whinning and become productive again. Get govt. out of commerce. As Jorge Santanna said, "As the wealthy descend their stairs in silk slippers, the poor will ascend in boots." "Che" will be the final consequence of the poors ascent unless the poor in our country are taught true American History and values and made morally responsible again.

Even lefty Obama doesn't believe his own dangerous pre-election rhetoric any more. He knows just how dangerous "change" could be to America. Secretary of State Clinton....Past is prolog.

ps everyone in my family drives American made now.
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windoggie



Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 2660

PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which True American History and Values are you referring to? And just how are you going to make the poor moral? Chain them to church pews? Beat it into them?

How do you know what Obama believes now? And what was the dangerous pre-election rhetoric? The part about working together for the common good? Or hearing all sides of an argument before making a decision? Or spending our tax money where it will do the most good? That part?

Just asking.

_________________
/w\
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mikecole



Joined: 21 Sep 2000
Posts: 164

PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The widely quoted figure of $75.00/hr is misleading. That figure is arrived at by taking all "labor" cost (current employement + past employee pension & health benifits) and dividing by the number of current UAW employes. In reality, the average UAW assembly line worker makes $28.50/hr. + benifits.
see: http://mediamatters.org/items/200811240004

Of course it can be argued that it is retired employee costs that are suffocating the "big 3". Especialy when they must compete with auto manufacturing in countires that provide a state funded health care system.

The issue of the "big 3" bailout is complex. On one hand we can allow one or more of the "big 3" to fail, in which case the taxpayers will have to properly fund the underfunded pension & benifit plans of those affected retirees (expensive!). Or, we can provide some sort of bailout to prevent bankruptcy with the hope that the company can make good on its promises to its retirees (expensive!).

I suppose the question is... which course of action is least expensive to the taxpayer.

Mike
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MalibuGuru



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 6463

PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

windoggie wrote:
Which True American History and Values are you referring to? And just how are you going to make the poor moral? Chain them to church pews? Beat it into them?

How do you know what Obama believes now? And what was the dangerous pre-election rhetoric? The part about working together for the common good? Or hearing all sides of an argument before making a decision? Or spending our tax money where it will do the most good? That part?

Just asking.


Shut the border, cut all social programs for illegals, teach the values of our founding fathers, not the San Francisco crowd. Teach our kids how to be contributors not takers.

Obama lived a completely different life and rhetoric prior to the election. You'd think he was a Republican now, by his appointments.

Todays news: Is this America in 8 years? This is what govt control gets you. Will there be another Che in Mexico?

TIJUANA, Mexico -- The bodies of nine decapitated men have been found in a vacant empty lot in Tijuana, part of a wave of violence that has claimed at least 23 lives in less than 24 hours in this border city.
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