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pacspeed
Joined: 14 Sep 2000
Posts: 627
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 Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Kiters, dont take this garbage too seriously. A windsurfing forum getting it;s knickers in a twist over smack talk on a kite forum? Gimme a break. Every windsurfing forum I've read for the last ten years has been full of the same smack about kiting. |
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River-Lizard
Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 188
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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| GuyTessier wrote: |
Wow, there's a lot I don't get here. What a saw on the now removed video was a kiter that was clearly out of control and that represented a real danger to other people, specially to the one that could have got killed. The sound track was also interesting: laughs and applauses. Franky, with the humor that followed on your forum, I found the whole thing very disturbing.
Now, we are called prejudiced, frustrated people that don't get enough time on the water. Funny, I had a little incident with a kiter a few weeks ago, went on the local kite forum to discuss about it and got the same kind of reaction. Or, like one kiter told me: "If you can't stand the heat, stay home". Well, I am not ready to do that yet, sorry. |
Exactly why I posted my concerns here. Forget about pacspeed's "garbage" comment... he just wants to make sure at past 40 he can still seem "cool" to the kiters that are supporting this kind of behaviour. Posting concerns about reckless behaviour is not "garbage" regardless of peoples obvious attempts to marginalize our rights to enjoy the water without being targeted. I love the passive/aggressive posts of NwaMike... "I'll be the one with the big smile"... yeah right Mike, we're all miserable Trolls that go out on the water with big frowns hating every moment of it..
These kinds of P/A digs ("someone needs to get out on the water") have been typed a thousand times, its almost a sort of learned behaviour, and just shows that his argument has run out. |
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pacspeed
Joined: 14 Sep 2000
Posts: 627
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 3:17 pm Post subject: Re: What's up with NW Kite?? |
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| River-Lizard wrote: |
I was not only surprised at how close this was, but all the praise the guy seems to be getting for nearly KOing a windsurfer... I mean, he could have killed the guy. Reading through the thread, and the "lets take over the Event Site" thread, I have to wonder what's up with all the anti-windsurfing sentiment lately on NW Kite? |
It's not garbage at all. My point is: do you ACTUALLY wonder "whats up with all the anti-windsurfing sentiment lately on NW Kite?"
Because the answer is pretty clear: WS forums have been filled with anti-kite stuff for years. Some of it is justified, most of it not.
That guy at rooster was out of line and dangerous, no doubt about it, but that's neither here nor there. The genesis of the kite vs WS conflict lies with us.
As to age and coolness, in 7 years, when I hit 40, I hope to still be windsurfing AND kiting every day I can. Whether, you, they, or anyone else still thinks it's cool or not.
BTW: It looks like the NWK admin took down the "I almost killed a WS" thread. |
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River-Lizard
Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 188
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 4:15 pm Post subject: Re: What's up with NW Kite?? |
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| pacspeed wrote: |
It's not garbage at all. My point is: do you ACTUALLY wonder "whats up with all the anti-windsurfing sentiment lately on NW Kite?" |
Ok, I'll bite, and take you at your word and hopefully diffuse a little. Yes, I do wonder what's up... my first post was totally sincere.. first the "lets take over the Event Site" and then the RR incident that to me seemed to be celebrated by the forum, not "omg that's just not right".
I didn't pounce on the RR thing. I waited a little, and wondered if I should even bother. But it just rubbed me the wrong way. Regardless of the political spins that NwaMike seems to be trying to put on it, the fact was the kiter saw the windsurfer, but chose to jump anyways thinking the windsurfer would get out of "his" way. This is stated by the kiter himself.
It wasn't just the "smack talk" as you call it, it was the fact that people seemed to have no issue at all with what they were seeing. One kiter even posted that she thought the kiter seemed "totally in control". Really? Because to me and apparently others he looked completely out of control. When he's posted that he thought "oh shit, I'm going to hit (the windsurfer)" that doesn't sound like the mind set of someone that's in control.
I've watched an adult kiter jump right over a 12 year old kid who was learning to windsurf at the Event Site, landed less than 3 ft away. I've watched as my buddy, who had right of way do everything he could to avoid a kiter, who kept changing to a collision course until finally my buddy cried Uncle and just dropped in the water... and the kiter was yelling at him.
I just wonder at what point to we draw the line? I realize its not cool to talk about this stuff. I realize that long posts like this just invite quip responses and rolling eyes. But there gets to be a point where I feel something needs to be said. Where I disagree with you is I dont' see threads here on I-windsurf that go on, joking or not about "kicking kiters in the head" or constantly calling them "bitches". But even that stuff doesn't matter. What concerns me is what NwaMike partly touched upon. That the kiters involved in the RR incident are young, and the tone of both the video and the thread, is that this kind of thing is fun and cool. People, its fucking dangerous!
You may be a kid in some peoples eyes, whatever, but weren't not talking about backing the car into the neighbours mailbox... were talking about 150lbs or more of body slamming into a sailor on the water, not to mention hard edged boards. Is it going to take someone getting killed for people to wake up and realize that a sheepish grin and "sorry brah" doesn't cut it? This type of thing shouldn't be happening in the first place.
I have friends that kite. They don't get into any of this shit because they kite safetly, and stay well clear of other people on the water. They don't jump when there are other people directly down wind, nor expect that a "sorry dude" is going to absolve them of reckless endangerment.
People need to think about their actions on the water. The person they KO could be a windsurfer, and that means it could be my wife, or my buddies wife, both who windsurf regularly in these areas. What do you think our reaction would be if we saw a loved one just get slammed into by a reckless kiter? Can you put yourself in our shoes for a moment and think about how shitty it is to have to go to a site and think "damn, there's a lot of kiters today, maybe this isn't the spot"?
We recently sailed at Swell City, and what a joy it was to sail with a great group of people, great vibe, and no worries about out of control kiters.
Sorry for the long post, really, but this issue really gets to me, I just don't see why with a little consideration we can't all get along out there. "Getting along" doesn't mean acting like an idiot on the water, and then apologizing for it later. Seems a little more thought before action would serve some of these guys well. |
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NwaMike
Joined: 04 Oct 2004
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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OK River, seriously, lighten up. You obviously had your mind made up and will interpret anything said to mean what you want it to mean
| River-Lizard wrote: | I love the passive/aggressive posts of NwaMike... "I'll be the one with the big smile"... yeah right Mike, we're all miserable Trolls that go out on the water with big frowns hating every moment of it..
These kinds of P/A digs ("someone needs to get out on the water") have been typed a thousand times, its almost a sort of learned behaviour, and just shows that his argument has run out. |
Dude, it was a joke. Every launch I've ever been at everyone coming in from a session is smiling. Both Kiters and Windsurfers. Everybody. See, that's why it's funny, EVERYBODY is smiling. It's not passive aggressive, it's a JOKE! Haven't you noticed that usually everybody is smiling at your launch? As far as you insinuating that I made the dig ("someone needs to get out on the water"), I NEVER EVER POSTED SUCH A THING. See, that's why you couldn't quote me on it. In fact, I specifically encouraged you to post your thoughts.
| River-Lizard wrote: | | One kiter even posted that she thought the kiter seemed "totally in control". Really? Because to me and apparently others he looked completely out of control. |
Here is the actual quote from the kiter:
| Carolb wrote: | | I'm impressed at how fast that WS cranked that turn to avoid hitting Amery, still stayed in control and ripped off like no big deal. |
River, it's pretty easy to see SHE IS TALKING ABOUT THE WINDSURFER BEING IN CONTROL! Man, how do you get that she is talking about the kiter? I can see why you're upset. You read every comment as an attack, regardless of what was said. BTW, I'm not attacking you, just making an observation. I'm sure you will construe it as some kind of attack. Reality check: You really need to look at reality. Things are not always what you have decided they are.
Like I said, I think the thread served a purpose. Local kiters are more aware that they need to scan for windsurfers than they were a few days ago. I think most local kiters will try a bit harder to keep a safe zone between themselves and other river users. That's what is important right? That was the purpose of most folks here? (I'm guessing that 99% of windsurfers agree with this and do, in fact, smile when riding.) If so, mission accomplished. If you just want to spread "ooo, kiteboarders are bad and they hate us" I hope I haven't disturbed you too much.
OK, I'm gone.  I look forward to sharing a beer with you guys. I'll be the guy who is smiling! Of course, you and everybody else around will probably smiling too. OK, I'll be the one who really could use a beer and would be really grateful if you tossed me a brew. (And yes, I know windsurfers like beer too. ) |
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jingebritsen
Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3371
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:56 am Post subject: |
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As far as who started hacking who on forums or in person, how about "windsurfing is canceled" from Trip Forman? That's just the tip of the ugly that came from kiting from the very get go. The whole marketing thrust was "kiting is superior" schtick was foul from the start. Lots of former windsurfers of varying degrees of skill went kite immediately. I got to hear their schpeels about how much better off I'd be if I kited.
Meanwhile, people died kiting (or have been hurt badly), sometimes they've hurt others. Sometimes I'd see first hand the out of control factor. Sometimes I'd help out those that have been hurt or had lost some or all of their gear. When I learned more about kiting, vicariously, the more I saw that some of the kiters sailing around me were just using chicken loops with no safeties. That's when I became concerned that I may be the next casualty.
Just had a surprise session in the surf with 4 windsurfers and 4 kiters late yesterday afternoon. We were all smiling and having a good time. We were all pushing ourselves in some very onshore lower 20's wind with shoulder high waves. We all sailed safely. |
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GuyT
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 182
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| NwaMike wrote: | | probably smiling too. OK, I'll be the one who really could use a beer and would be really grateful if you tossed me a brew. |
Sorry, MwaMike, I can't do that, I don't drink. 
Cheers to you and to all my good friends in the Gorge. Looking forward to see you next June, if of course, we survive this financial crisis!
(Come to think about it, what's worst? A kiter falling on your head or the whole economy? )
Guy, the guy from Montreal. |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:34 pm Post subject: Re: What's up with NW Kite?? |
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| River-Lizard wrote: | I've watched an adult kiter jump right over a 12 year old kid who was learning to windsurf at the Event Site, landed less than 3 ft away.
What do you think our reaction would be if we saw a loved one just get slammed into by a reckless kiter? |
Where was the kid's dad? Where were the police ... his respectable peers ... other observers? Any of those could have made sure that didn't happen again. I've been threatened with arrest for reckless endangerment for FAR less than that, with no one around TO endanger. OTOH, when I filed a police report on a neighbor who threw a rock towards my wife, the cop said, "Next time do what I'd do if off duty: put him in the hospital on the spot, THEN file charges."
I don't know or care whether the reckless [kiter, WSer, skiier, boarder ... it doesn't matter] who slammed into my wife -- twice -- and tried to escape was still breathing when they got him to the hospital (presuming anybody found the son of a bitch) after I put my shoulder through his sternum in a successful, high-speed, dead center head-on. If it had been my little kid being assaulted, I'd probably have actually gotten MAD. Political correctness and reliance on others to protect us are producing generations of pus ... er, pushovers.
I don't care if disrespectful, self-centered, aggro lowlifes self-destruct their own sport -- whichever sport it is -- but they need to be taught by society that our actions, even our words, have consequences.
Mike |
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NwaMike
Joined: 04 Oct 2004
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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It's all good guy, I drink Coke too! First one's on me.
As for being a pussy or a psychopath, I hope I fall somewhere in between. |
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andymc4610
Joined: 19 May 2000
Posts: 684
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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bummer i missed that day. my car was loaded the night before and then I got the flu/ or a bug. looked like the first really high wind day at Rooster this fall.
There was a 4.7 day there a week before this one. That day we were watching a kiter try to launch down at the west side. The kiter was going to show the family his stuff. my buddy and i were done and drinking beer and being entertained by the kiter having to lay out his lines 3 times (twisted) and scaring his wife trying to launch him. in the end my buddy launched him (he used to kite). this guy launched a good 200ft on shore and ran that kite out to the water (in nuetral position) I thought he was not going to make it. all and all a good time and enjoyed the show. we did not land him, after 4 beers we were just like let his wife do it, LOL. |
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