Simmer Sail problem

LeeD · Joined: 12 Jun 2008 Posts: 1175

I certainly DO know much more than the "sailmakers".
Consider.... I have a '07 Ezzy5.5, so sorta new.
The local Ezzy/Simmer REP sails around here, and rigs here too.....
We both don't go by #'s, like a blind engineer or a trusting weatherman who NEVER looks outside while making his forecasts.
My 4 older (2000-2003) Simmers don't rig close to spec. If you did, you'd be TWO INCHS off !!.
My 2003 GaastraManic5.5 is not close to 4cms on downhaul, and almost that much the OTHER DIRECTION in outhaul.
Of course I know more than most of the sailmakers! I sail on the sails I have. THEY print the specs according to their PROTOTYPE handmade in Maui sails, using THEIR bases and masts.
Of course I know more than the sailmakers. I'd never cutout the leech. I'd never use monofilm on the luff panel. I'd never use male headcaps. I'd never sew the fricken top of the sail supertight so only a pencil goes in..... I'd never use a flextop idea.....I'd never make my pulleys NOT line up with the mast base pulleys....I'd never bend the mast all to heck claiming it makes the sail more stable (see '97 Norths...little bend, superstable)....I'd never use a really heavy, stiff material right next to monofilm or trilam.... I'd never go really long on boom or really short on boom just to see if the public would be my test dummy....I'd ;never add 6 seams and panels to look cool....
Shall I go on ???
Of course I know better than the designers of sails. I actually rig them and sail them in the REAL WORLD !!!

isobars · Joined: 12 Dec 1999 Posts: 20935

And where do Blake, Bruce, the Ezzy's, the Hot Sails guys, Hansen, etc. sail ... in swimming pools?

BTW, I can easily pull my mast top out through the top of my sails; no pencil hole there. And I have no monofilm leech panels, or male head caps, or cutout leeches, or misaligned tack cringles, or flextop masts or sails ... and my swoosh is highly functional. And not one sail designer -- I've discussed sail tuning with all of those and many more from 1984 with my first Pryde RAF to last week re my '09 Northwaves -- has ever told me in person or on his website to tune a sail just by frame measurements. Every one has stressed in one way or another that the numbers are primarily an assembly guide, that final tuning goes by shape/appearance and is subject to further fine tuning to preference by experienced owners.

Mike

LeeD · Joined: 12 Jun 2008 Posts: 1175

It's nice your Northwaves are just perfect as is.....
But then look at all the problems of other sail company's problems. You only have to look here, but if you really want to see below the surface, just hit any of the sailmaker's websites on their forums. Lotsa 'um don't do forums anymores, preferring to keep things secret by contact thru personal Email only.
How's about buying a new other sailmaker company sail and then finding out you need 8 days of "break-in" before the darn thing even begins to rotate??
I am looking forward to trying my Northwave 4.7 of older vintage, but I don't know the year. It seems to rig easy and smooth but with some amount of downhaul tension. How much? Well, can't say until I know exactly what the winds are... Wink

isobars · Joined: 12 Dec 1999 Posts: 20935

LoveSplittingLanes · Joined: 17 Jul 2004 Posts: 97 Location: Back in CA!

LeeD is close... Spent a few years @ KPMG with accountants... Good guess!

That said, I have been sailing for over 2 decades with a bunch of different set ups starting with the 300L race boards back in the 80s... so have a few points of reference in regards to sails/ masts/ booms, etc....

Going back to the topic, How can one explain that one Simmer sail rigs perfectly while another one rigs "weird" despite multiple tests? (all on the Simmer recommended mast)... If someone has a tangible answer, I'd love to hear more about it...

isobars · Joined: 12 Dec 1999 Posts: 20935

Here's one answer: "Wierd" is in the eye of the beholder. One guy's "excess flop" is another's normal appearance.

Mike

LoveSplittingLanes · Joined: 17 Jul 2004 Posts: 97 Location: Back in CA!

Hey Mike,
Besides appearance, the sails also feel unstable/ lack of power. Both have the loose leech AND really flat at the boom area... So basically no "pocket' in the boom head area (limited power) while "WEIRD" looking (in my eyes) @ the leech area... I do not get these 2 sails (out of 7 Simmer I possess)...

thombiz · Joined: 25 Jun 2007 Posts: 799 Location: Corpus Christi

I had a very similar problem with a new 2007 Simmer Crossover 6.2 . I know a lot about sails as I'm the sail repair guy in Corpus Christi and I've made about 6000 sail repairs, but I couldn't get that sail to work at all. It was always way too flat in the boom area followed by a super super floppy leach. It would not take a shape until it was way up in it's wind range. Sold it and bought a Pryde Search 6.2 which turned out to be a sweet sail.

rwilde · Joined: 22 Feb 2001 Posts: 51

Hey O I thought you got a pretty good price! I think you akl might want to talk to the pros who design the sails so you rig them correctly. Fred if you are who I think you are you are saling that sail in 5.0 winds. I would be glad to help you rig it and please make sure you are using the right mast. Rich W.