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Bail out : the truth!
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 18709

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where do Governors of Illinois, CEOs of Enron/AIG/etc., and similar white collar bottomless scumbags get their starts? Cheating in school and stealing from friends and retailers -- like most of today's kids according to the media.

There oughtta be a "lowlife threshold" measured in terms of dollars, or lives ruined, or just plain "criminal arrogance" beyond which these snake turds never get out of prison. One thing I really enjoyed about the military was helping punish or end the careers of slime with no integrity, including the lieutenant who ran a cathouse at the taxpayers' expense, the captain who lied to the congressman about our program's readiness, two- and three-star generals who committed crimes or violated regulations almost weekly that I knew of, and several others. Even when formal punishment or a dishonorable discharge wasn't attainable from my level, a substantiated threat of same was often very effective in restoring honor at least to a violator's behavior, if not his heart. It's too damned bad politicians don't have the same legal or moral obligation to uphold the personal and professional standards of our military personnel.

Where in civilian life is there anything like "I shall not lie, cheat, or steal, or tolerate those who do", and where in politics is anything like that enforced?
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windoggie



Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 2708

PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Cathouse...a story of a nation on the brink, and the man who risked it all to clean up the litter.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 9149

PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh my goodness, is that a framed capital "S" on isobars costume? Beyond the framework he has established for himself, one must ask if he's a real world champion for good?

Any thoughts?
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 6683
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bard, you are 100% wrong . In 2006, the mortgage vintage that has bankrupted the USA, Dennis Hastert and Bill Frist were in charge of Congress. 2006 was the tip of the Matterhorn in which 35% of all originations were low quality, done by Ameriquest, Argent, New Century, and other shady outfits. Did you know that the founder of Ameriquest is W's ambassodor to The Netherlands?
The movement to fund mortgages for poor people and minorities has been on the march since 1977, it just happened to capsize as a result of the policies of 2002-2006, when Washington was run by the Republicans, and now we face one party rule for the next 30 years.
Boggsman
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MalibuGuru



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 7788

PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guys assume that Bush acted like a republican. That's like putting a chimp in a doctors gown and having it do brain surgery.

The republicans in the senate are finally acting like conservatives with regard to this auto union bailout. Look at the uaw press conference today......finally, maybe they might be acting conservatively.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 18709

PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

THREE CHEERS FOR SENATORIAL SANITY! Senate Republicans stopped the bailout of the UAW! At least for one more month, there's hope for capitalism, aka Survival of the Fittest, aka the future of the American economy.

"Buy American" is fine ... as long as it's from an industry or company not encumbered by oppressive, bloated, self-serving unions.
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windoggie



Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 2708

PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
THREE CHEERS FOR SENATORIAL SANITY! Senate Republicans stopped the bailout of the UAW! At least for one more month, there's hope for capitalism, aka Survival of the Fittest, aka the future of the American economy.

"Buy American" is fine ... as long as it's from an industry or company not encumbered by oppressive, bloated, self-serving unions.


Damn, you're predictable.

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D-wo



Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 239

PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some of those same Senators voted to give 700b to TARP and stood by while 80b was given to AIG. Their opposition probably has more to do with firming up there own non-union auto industries. Toyota has a large presence in the not so union friendly South.

GM suffers from legacy costs and health care costs. One of the reasons GM and other industries pay health care to its employees is because they didn't want the government to do it. Employee health care programs were adopted to squelch momentum for a "New Deal" era government health care plan.

The UAW reps apparently were bargaining with Senate leaders as the vote came up. Yes they have to make concessions. I'm far from being an expert on unions, but I think it is safe to say that the UAW is not perfect. However one must wear some pretty thick blinders if they put this crisis completely on the UAW.

Instead of pointing fingers, I think Industry, Labor and Government should work together to figure out how to save what little manufacturing the US has left. It seems wrong to bail out a company that made shitty cars. However inaction could have a serious impact on the most critical economic measurements - unemployment and personal income i.e. the ability of individuals to subsist.

And while you are lauding your favorite Repub Sens., don't forget these are the same Senators who voted against fuel efficiency standards for years on end, enabling Detroit to make bloated gas guzzlers that nobody wanted.

I wish I bought a Hummer when gas was 4 bucks a gallon. Perhaps I could make a tidy profit now...if there was anywhere to park the beast.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 9149

PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think our Republican cheerleaders here are predictably myopic. What else is new?
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 11276
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with the Republicans on this one, but for different reasons. Like a real estate work out, everyone has to put something on the table. But the fundamental question here is how much are the assets worth. I kind of suspect that these companies have been mismanaged until they are a hollow shell. Bankruptcy means the assets will be for sale, and will find their true value, and eventually some type of manufacturing, and probably automotive, will emerge. But it will be very different than it is now. It is absolutely correct that the Republicans propped them up for over a decade by exempting them from efficiency standards, rather than ease their way into change that would have made them more competitive. And it is true that the unions were part of the problem, not the solution. And it is typical of the Republicans that they want to whack the unions rather than solve the problems, so their motives are suspicious. But at the same time, we don't understand what kind of assets and companies need to emerge from the current flames--all we know is that the management structure is incompetent.
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