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Bail out : the truth!
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jpbassman



Joined: 19 May 1998
Posts: 3320
Location: Leo

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They are all crooks, republicans and democrats alike. Cool

I'm voting for Carmen Miranda. Shocked
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GGSkater



Joined: 01 Jun 2002
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:57 am    Post subject: I guarantee you that... Reply with quote

[quote="theq"]
swchandler wrote:
...

What is/was needed, is regulation on these markets. Greed is very contagious, especially in a world of a ubiquitous blurring of needs vs. wants.

To me, it's the appraisers, and the banks that pressured them to bring in appraisals "at value" that shoulder.


Q--sounds like you're the honorable realtor, just as in 2001 there were lots of honorable stockbrokers and equity research analysts on Wall St. Sadly, each profession has had its share of rogues.

Interesting point about the regulation--despite the fact that buying a home can represent a huge "investment", the realty/mortgage world is not, in my opinion, regulated as closely as the brokerage industry.

From the FINRA manual (you can find this on the Internet, FINRA is the body that regulates brokers):
"No member or person associated with a member shall guarantee a customer against loss in connection with any securities transaction or in any securities account of such customer. "

I have several times overheard realtors at dinner parties a few years ago say something like, "I know prices have gone up a lot and you see articles about a real estate bubble, but I GUARANTEE you that prices in San Francisco will never go down". Now one can argue about the relative stability of San Francisco real estate compared to say, Antioch, but prodding a nervous buyer by guaranteeing against a loss would seem to be wrong. The premise that real estate prices will not drop, or will not drop in aggregate nationally, or will not drop more than 13%, or that this "brilliant" CDO is fine because the tranche is correctly rated because such a drop in price / loss of collateral will not occur, etc., is a major factor in the current financial situation. The thinking behind the premise that real estate goes ever upward was probably as much "bubble psychology" and "irrational exuberance", noting that major price rises occurred outside the USA (without the aid of Neg-Ams, all interest, etc) in Spain, London, Paris...(a good read is Shiller's Subprime Solution, at least on the "psychology" component).

****

To me, it's the appraisers, and the banks that pressured them to bring in appraisals "at value" that shoulder.[/

Banks? Non-bank banks such as the then Countrywide, or would this include JP Morgan, Citigroup, Wachovia, Bank of America, etc...?
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pzwinakis



Joined: 03 Aug 2000
Posts: 42
Location: Santa Cruz

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone know how to turn off these posts so they don't display on the bottom of my website? A preference somewhere maybe? It's just that the VERY LAST THING I want to be looking at is a financial meltdown topic on the only website I pay for, that is dedicated to fun and physical recreation... Not that I want to hear how "rad" someones ill-fated first chop-hop was either...
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 9150

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No worries pz, you only need to read the stuff you like. Pretty simple really. Of course, reality is out there and it's often tempting to take a peek.

Given the hits and responses being tallied, seemingly the political and financial debates are quite popular overall. I have to admit, I find it refreshing that so many folks that enjoy windsurfing like I do also have a keen awareness and concern about many of the important issues of the day. With only a few exceptions, I'm very impressed by the quality and focus of thought being voiced here.
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pzwinakis



Joined: 03 Aug 2000
Posts: 42
Location: Santa Cruz

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The question was.. how do you turn off the forum posts showing up on all the screens? The fact that I am forced to look at the mindless drivel from people who, lacking friends, find a captive audience to aim their innermost feelings at so they can finally be heard... I could care less if they have something wonderfully insightful to say about anything! I don't even want to see the post's title. If I don't meet any of you online or in person for the rest of my life, I'll be happier for it. I have enough friends and am not looking for any more. If I want insightful commentary, I'll search it out myself on the web.
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windoggie



Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 2708

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pzwinakis wrote:
The question was.. how do you turn off the forum posts showing up on all the screens?


Get some of that black duct tape and put a strip over the bottom part of your screen.

_________________
/w\
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jpbassman



Joined: 19 May 1998
Posts: 3320
Location: Leo

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

windoggie wrote:
pzwinakis wrote:
The question was.. how do you turn off the forum posts showing up on all the screens?


Get some of that black duct tape and put a strip over the bottom part of your screen.



Use red duct tape if you are a republican or blue if you are a democrat. Laughing

GREGOR - turn off the damn map thingy at the top of your posts! It takes too long to load.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 11291
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Read George Will's column of today; he gets it almost entirely right (no, I do not intend a pun.) The one thing I object to is conservatives piling on about home ownership. (Says Will, "Suppose there had never been implicit government backing of Fannie Mae and Freddies Mac.... would there have developed the excessive diversion of capital into the housing stock?") It is a fact that home ownership is a very important way to create wealth and shield it from taxation. It is also a very significant reason that black family incomes are well below that of white families. There is a direct tax subsidy in sheltering interest payments for houses, including multiple house ownership, from taxation. If we limit home ownership to the wealthy, then that policy is regressive, protects established wealth regardless of the merits of the current generation, and is patently unfair. There might be better ways to make the tax code more equitable--such as only allowing interest deductions for one's primary residence. That might also reduce speculation and make housing a tad cheaper. But it is the despicable part of the Republican creed to attack any measure that tries to balance subsidies across different income levels. The rising tide does not lift all boats equally.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 18710

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fidelity's bailout assessment, FWIW, is at http://tinyurl.com/5xmo7v.

Its bottom line is:
Perhaps the most important consideration at this point is not whether this is a perfect plan but whether it is a necessary one. Its most powerful potential is to stem the insidious psychological momentum behind the vicious cycle of falling asset prices and deteriorating confidence that have accelerated in the credit markets in recent weeks. From this standpoint of market psychology, the strong attributes of the plan's simple objectives (massive amounts of new money to remove troubled assets) are likely to outweigh the complex uncertainties that lie ahead with its implementation. Whether it will be sufficient in aiding the housing market and stemming the financial crisis will be determined in the months to come. It is not likely to be a near-term panacea for the U.S. economy, which has demonstrated recent signs of deteriorating significantly. However, previous crises have demonstrated that when the financial system no longer functions properly, the quicker public money is injected into the system to replace bad assets, the less painful the impact will be on the broader economy, and the faster a recovery can become possible.
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 6692
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buffet to the rescue again, puting 5B into GE. I love it when liberals save the day .
Boggsman
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